Linux-Misc Digest #263, Volume #21 Mon, 2 Aug 99 16:13:10 EDT
Contents:
Re: math.h problem (Steve Summit)
Re: Bay Area GNU Picnic, August 14 at Lake Temescal (Robert Lynch)
Re: kernel 2.2.10 isofs bug? ("Thomas T. Veldhouse")
Re: video editing on linux? (William Burrow)
Re: After glibc2 upgrade, make menuconfig won't work ("Thomas T. Veldhouse")
Re: Installing Netscape 4.61 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: My Linux box was hacked! (Matt Curtin)
Re: IDE vs scsi? (William Burrow)
Re: GDP (Peter Seebach)
Re: democracy and government power (Stefaan A Eeckels)
disabling promiscius mode (Thomas Glanzmann)
Re: math.h problem (Steve Summit)
Re: LILO & Booting from "hdc", the third hard disk. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Running Bash with perl ("Timbo")
Re: Newbie in Houston (Chris)
Re: IDE vs scsi? ("Art S. Kagel")
Re: guaranteed annual income ("A.T.Z.")
Re: Newbie in Houston (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Summit)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c,gnu.gcc.help
Subject: Re: math.h problem
Date: 2 Aug 1999 18:04:20 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pop) wrote:
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (Kaz Kylheku) writes:
>>The -lm kludge is just another way in which Linux is compatible with other UNIX
>> operating systems. The -lm means that Makefile rules from other platforms work
>> on Linux. And conversely, Linux programmers are forced to adopt a convention
>> that will work on many other UNIX-like operating systems, so that it's one
>> less detail to worry about when porting. There are certain basic things
>> you can count on when programming on any randomly chosen UNIX; like -lm
>> for the math library, -O for optimization,
>
> The problem can be fixed without breaking the -lm kludge or *any*
> Makefile rules relying on it: put all the math stuff in *both* libc and
> libm. This way, -lm will no longer be necessary, but including it on
> the gcc command line will cause no harm.
Precisely.
> This trick won't need any changes outside the glibc build procedure and
> I can't think of any situation where the compatibility with other Unix
> platforms will be affected.
>
> The only *sensible* objection is that people who learn Unix on Linux will
> have problems when switching to other Unix platform. However, compared to
> the other problems when switching Unix platforms, this one is really
> insignificant.
Agreed on all points.
Steve Summit
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:10:51 -0700
From: Robert Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Bay Area GNU Picnic, August 14 at Lake Temescal
Richard Stallman wrote:
>
> [ Please repost this wherever you think is appropriate! ]
>
> Bay Area GNU Picnic, August 14 at Lake Temescal (Oakland)
>
> Who: People who like or work on the GNU system. Perhaps you.
>
> What: A GNU picnic on the beach. With grill, music, and filking.
[snip]
Anybody GkNow what "filking" is? :-)
Bob L.
P.S. Sorry if this appears twice; a first post seems to have failed
because it included gnu.announce.
--
Robert Lynch-Berkeley CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.best.com/~rmlynch/
------------------------------
From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,za.unix.misc
Subject: Re: kernel 2.2.10 isofs bug?
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:43:28 -0500
You compiled isofs as a module, did you try loading it first?
/sbin/modprobe isofs
Tom Veldhouse
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mark Gebhardt wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Hello
>
>I have recently upgraded my standard RedHat6.0
>distribution (2.2.5-15) to kernel 2.2.10ac12.
>
>I am now unable to access my CD-ROM. It is an
>IDE/ATAPI device and is recognised successfully by
>Linux, but trying to mount the CDROM, results in a
>'bad inode' error.
>
>Details are as follows:
>
>Hardware: PII350, Intel T440BX MoBo, SAMSUNG
>CD-ROM SCR-3231, ATAPI CDROM drive (hdb)
>
>in compiling the kernel, the following config
>options were set:
>#
># Block devices
>#
>CONFIG_BLK_DEV_FD=y
>CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE=y
># CONFIG_BLK_DEV_HD_IDE is not set
>CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDISK=y
>CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDECD=y
># CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDETAPE is not set
>...
>#
># Filesystems
>#
># CONFIG_QUOTA is not set
>CONFIG_AUTOFS_FS=y
># CONFIG_ADFS_FS is not set
># CONFIG_AFFS_FS is not set
># CONFIG_HFS_FS is not set
>CONFIG_FAT_FS=m
>CONFIG_MSDOS_FS=m
>CONFIG_UMSDOS_FS=m
>CONFIG_VFAT_FS=m
>CONFIG_ISO9660_FS=m
>CONFIG_JOLIET=y
># CONFIG_MINIX_FS is not set
>CONFIG_NTFS_FS=m
>
>
>/etc/fstab:
>------
>...
>/dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
>ext2 noauto 0 0
>/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom
>iso9660 user,noauto,ro 0 0
>...
>
>on typing:"mount /dev/cdrom" the following appears
>in /var/log/messages:
>
>Jul 28 16:26:18 gollach1 kernel: hdb: command
>error: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error
>}
>Jul 28 16:26:18 gollach1 kernel: hdb: command
>error: error=0x50
>Jul 28 16:26:18 gollach1 kernel: end_request: I/O
>error, dev 03:40 (hdb), sector 108
>Jul 28 16:26:18 gollach1 kernel: ISOFS: unable to
>read i-node block
>Jul 28 16:26:18 gollach1 kernel: isofs_read_super:
>root inode not initialized
>Jul 28 16:26:19 gollach1 kernel: ATAPI device hdb:
>
>Jul 28 16:26:19 gollach1 kernel: Error: Illegal
>request -- (Sense key=0x05)
>Jul 28 16:26:19 gollach1 kernel: Illegal mode
>for this track or incompatible medium --
>(asc=0x64, ascq=0x00)
>
>While the console reports the standard:
>mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock
>on /dev/cdrom, or too many mounted file systems
>
>I am able to mount /dev/fd0, and am also able to
>mount all CDs when I boot into kernel2.2.5-15.
>
>Is this a known bug, or have I made an error in my
>kernel configuration?
>
>Thanks for any assistance
>Mark
>
>
>
>--
>Mark Gebhardt
>Radar Remote Sensing Group
>University of Cape Town
>South Africa
>
>tel: +27 21 6503756
>email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www: http://rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow)
Subject: Re: video editing on linux?
Date: 2 Aug 1999 18:29:37 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:52:33 -0500,
John Guillory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is there a video editing software like Premier or Avid for Linux?
I doubt it. However, somebody is working on a format called movtar (it
splits the frames into files and stores them in a large tar file). It
should be possible to create free software that works with this format
realatively easily.
There is, of course, that Broadcast2000 thing....
--
William Burrow -- New Brunswick, Canada o
Copyright 1999 William Burrow ~ /\
~ ()>()
------------------------------
From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: After glibc2 upgrade, make menuconfig won't work
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:40:15 -0500
You should have built ncurses as an add-on to the glibc distribution in the
same was as linuxthreads, crypt, etc. Works very well this way.
Tom Veldhouse
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Donn Miller wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>I have a Slackware 4.0 system, which is libc5 based. After I
>upgraded my system to glibc2 from source (glibc-2.1.1 that is),
>make menuconfig will no longer work. Here's the error messages
>I'm getting:
>
>/lib/libncurses.so: undefined reference to `_xstat'
>/lib/libncurses.so: undefined reference to `_fxstat'
>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>make[1]: *** [lxdialog] Error 1
>make: *** [menuconfig] Error 2
>
>I still have by libc.so.5* files in /lib, so if it's looking for
>libc.so.5, it's still there.
>
>The funny thing is that I deleted all files /lib/ncurses.so*,
>which were libc5 based, and compiled/installed a newer version
>of ncurses in glibc2 format. Then, the existing libc5 apps on
>my system linked against the libc5 version of ncurses were
>broken. However, make menuconfig did work, but the menu panes
>looked all screwy and illegible with garbage. Maybe I should
>just rm /lib/ncurses.so, and let the link point to the new
>installation of libncurses, but still keep the older ncurses
>libs in /lib.
>
>I'm thinking that `make menuconfig' has to use an older version
>of ncurses in order to work, such as 3.4. My new version was
>4.3, I think.
>
>So, what to do? Should I just fire up X and use make xconfig
>instead?
>
>--
> Donn
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Installing Netscape 4.61
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:35:49 GMT
>
> FWIW, I installed 4.61 from netscape.com (I needed the 128 bit
> encryption version) and it still often crashes when it encounters
Java.
>
> Jeff
>
The upgrade to enlightenment on the redhat Errata page says it has some
effect on Java apps this may be your problem.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Matt Curtin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.security.unix,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: My Linux box was hacked!
Date: 01 Aug 1999 14:52:04 -0400
>>>>> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:42:01 -0600,
Kenneth P Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
Kenneth> As far as network security is concerned, a hacker is someone
Kenneth> who breaks into systems (sometimes his/her own) to either
Kenneth> help, learn, or prove it can be done,
Stop perpetuating this ridiculous myth. We hackers are tired of this
nonsense.
Those who lack the prowess well beyond that of their "normal" (read:
"merely competent") peers to create and to innovate have no basis to
claim to be hackers. Your usage of the word is incorrect and performs
a disservice to a community to which you should be showing a great
deal of veneration.
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hacker.html
I cannot help but wonder if my words will have any effect on your
usage, since the one paragraph I quoted includes at least two
additional counts of insufficient English mastery:
o The correct possessive personal pronoun to use for a person whose
gender is undetermined is "his". "His/her" is a politically-
inspired, grammatically incorrect abomination of a language quite
lacking in need for still more special cases of grammar.
o "To either help" is a split infinitive, which is also grammatically
incorrect.
Only if English is not your native language will I refrain from
generalizing your grammatical mistakes and incorrect use of "hacker"
into the single offense of "underdeveloped language skills".
Irrespective of what your native language is, you seem ill-qualified
to tell us the meaning of "hacker". I respectfully and vehemently
request that you and all misusers of "hacker" immediately stop marring
our good name.
--
Matt Curtin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow)
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: 2 Aug 1999 17:03:14 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:57:02 GMT,
Rod Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> IBM DJNA 9,1GB E-IDE, Ultra-DMA, 7200U/min 359.00 DM
>>>> IBM DDRS 9100MB, UW/U2W-SCSI, 7200U/min 652.00 DM
It is obvious that for comparable drives, SCSI is quite expensive.
While I'd pick SCSI wherever possible myself, the cost difference is too
much for a simple desktop system. OTOH, I always recommend SCSI for
server machines.
>Unless something is planned to come out VERY soon that lets EIDE do more
>than 2 devices per interrupt, "how long will it last" isn't a terribly
>useful question, IMHO, for current purchases. I've got four
>*NON-HARD-DISK* devices on my main system's SCSI bus *TODAY*. Future
>advances in EIDE don't make much difference to me now. If you're buying
>a drive today and plan to expand the bus later, future EIDE capabilities
>might be important, but then you'd need to plan on buying a new EIDE
>controller or motherboard in the future. If the future standards break
>current hardware, you'd also have to ditch what you've just bought.
>
>In other words: A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
I leave this in to re-iterate: this philosophy applies to ALL hardware
considerations! Either buy it now or forget it if it is vapourware.
Oh, and never buy version 1.0. ;)
>For the average low-end system, you're probably right, though I've some
>qualms about that "adding" bit (two hard disks and one CD-ROM fare worse
>than one hard disk and one CD-ROM on EIDE, and if you're adding one to two
>existing hard disks, it's even worse for EIDE). IMHO, with EIDE, it's
>generally best to REPLACE, rather than ADD, a hard disk. This is
>especially true if you have devices like Zip drives, CD-R burners, etc.,
>chewing up EIDE connections. In fact, the fact that you can use more SCSI
>devices means that they may have longer lifetimes, thus reducing the size
>of future hard disk purchases and lowering future SCSI costs. That's a
>factor that almost never gets mentioned in the SCSI-vs-EIDE debates.
I'm not sure, but I believe that most people dump their entire machines
once they realize the disk is quite inadequate. This is because they
consider the now slow CPU, inadequate video card and lacking memory
capacity as well.
My machines tend to mutate one upgrade at a time until the parts are
ludicrously priced to obtain or obsolete, but that is me, a tinkerer
and home system builder, not the general public: appliance and system
buyers.
--
William Burrow -- New Brunswick, Canada o
Copyright 1999 William Burrow ~ /\
~ ()>()
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GDP
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Seebach)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:12:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I beg to differ. It's usually a good indicator of employment/unemployment
>trends, eg GDP growth usually points to good employment, while a fall
>in GDP usually leaves many unemployed. The middlemen might not add
>any value, but they are not unemployed.
And often, they *do* add value - specifically, the provide the service of
getting a product from Point A to Point B.
-s
--
Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/
Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: democracy and government power
Date: 2 Aug 1999 16:58:44 GMT
In article <7o2ha7$cf9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Kulisz) writes:
>
> 1) prevent them from selling in your country anything
> that's produced overseas
> 2) tax their overseas operations.
>
> These aren't novel ideas.
No. And they do favour small companies, which is not
to your liking. They also make international trade
impossible (why would importers be allowed to sell
imported goods, and manufacturers not?).
In any case, I don't want to go back to the days
where this was practiced, as it lead directly to
WWI & II.
--
Stefaan
--
PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)
___________________________________________________________________
Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add,
but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exup�ry
------------------------------
From: Thomas Glanzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: disabling promiscius mode
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:14:12 -0500
Hi,
I want to make it impossible to sniff from a kernel/machine to sniff.
Somebody has a Idea / kernel hack to disable sniffing?
--tg
| Thomas Glanzmann | Schloss Bieberstein, D-36145 Hofbieber | +49 6657 7943 |
| This information is provided as-is, without any guaranty of correctness. |
+------------------------- http://www.glanzmann.cx ---------------------------+
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Summit)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c,gnu.gcc.help
Subject: Re: math.h problem
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:04:26 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joe Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At a wild guess, back in the Old Days, typical system resources were at
> a bare minimum, libc.a was much smaller than it is now and libm.a was a
> relatively large file and might not even be a part of some
> implementations. You could do a lot of hard work (in the Old Days)
> writing kernel, device and utility stuff without ever taking sqrt() of
> anything. libm.a was an option, not a necessity.
It was something like that. But that still doesn't completely
explain it, because the Unix linkers have always had (to my
knowledge) the basic feature of not loading in anything that
wasn't actively called or referenced.
Floating-point did always kind of take a back seat, partly
because (as you say) one doesn't use it very much at all in
operating system and utility work. And there were plenty of
old kludges to maintain tight control over how many resources
were expended on floating-point support: the compiler-generated
fltused symbol which triggered support within printf and scanf
for %e, %f, and %g (except that the scheme then *worked*, unlike
the one evidently used by Borland for the same purpose), the
-f switch to cc that requested the services of the software
floating-point emulator if your '11 didn't have a floating point
unit, the fact that everything was done in double because it was
too much of a nuisance to switch the processor into and out of
single-precision mode (and some models -- or maybe it was some
versions of Unix itself -- maybe didn't reliably store the FPU
precision as part of the process state), etc. So it certainly
seems plausible that the relegation of the floating-point
functions (well, all the ones except atof(), anyway) to a
separate library had something to do with all this, but I find
that I never knew or can't remember, and can't reconstruct,
exactly what the connection was. (In particular, under every
version of Unix I've used, if the math functions *had* been in
libc.a, they would have been ignored when linking any program
that didn't use them, and would have been visible -- that is,
linked into -- only those programs that did use them, that is,
those programs which in fact had to use -lm. But I guess the
same argument could be made about any library.)
> But it is now Today. All of us have on our modest machines, multiples
> of the 'raw power' of the PDP-11 and considerations of 'conservation of
> valuable resources' is different than it was 25 years ago.
Indeed. Consider that the old IBM PC, with its much-maligned
640k of user-accessible memory, had precisely 10 times as much
as the PDP-11. (Well, that's not quite true, of course, because
64K was the size of the address space of a single process;
the entire machine could have megabytes of memory installed,
depending on the processor memory. On later models, split I&D
let you access 64k of code and 64k of data, for a total of 128k
in one user address space.)
Steve Summit
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: LILO & Booting from "hdc", the third hard disk.
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 19:13:52 GMT
On Sun, 01 Aug 1999 16:00:27 +0900, Bono <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi
>
>I have three hard disks intalled in my system.
>Now, I'm trying to write lilo into a floppy to boot from "hdc", the
>master drive of the secondary IDE connector.
>My Bios doesn't support booting from the drives other than the first.
>
>Well, I get this error message when I run lilo:
>Warning: BIOS drive 0x82 may not be accessible
>Warning: BIOS drive 0x82 may not be accessible
>
>Then, It fails while booting.
>
>This is my lilo.conf:
>
>boot=/dev/fd0
>map=/boot/map
>install=/boot/boot.b
>prompt
>timeout=50
>image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.0.36
> label=linux
> root=/dev/hdb1
> read-only
>
>other=/dev/hdc1
> label=dos
> table=/dev/hdc
>
>
>Any advices will be appreciated
>
>Regards,
>
>Bono
i read somewhere that LILO will only work within the first 1024
cylinders. maybe there is a way around it.
A sedentary life, as I have already said elsewhere, is the real sin against the Holy
Ghost.
-Nietzsche
------------------------------
From: "Timbo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Running Bash with perl
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:57:48 +0100
Greets,
I am having major problems running a bash command from my browser using cgi
and perl.
I have a Linux box on the Network and I want users to have access to a
button that connects them to the net via the isdn line we have installed.
The trouble is no matter which files I give access the, script won't connect
because of no permissions to ippp0. I am going wrong with permissions I know
but where. None of my users can execute bash commands either only root.
I am calling the connection script with 'system( blah blah )'.
Regards
Timbo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newbie in Houston
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:25:11 GMT
Thanks albert! I just read about SuSe, and it sounds pretty. Anyone
know anything about that OfficeWare it comes with?
On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 05:52:17 GMT, Albert Ulmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> > Slackware is the suited to people who are either very interested
>> > in getting under the hood or people with too much time on their
>> > hands. I'd argue that you can still get under the hood with RH.
>
>> Interesting - I had heard Slackware was the easiest but only like 3rd =
>
>and 4th
>> hand. I'm happy for the info, as I really don't want to screw around=20
>too
>> much.
>
>In that case I can really recommend SuSE 6.1 (6.2 coming soon), which=20
>is really good for beginners and hassle-free setup. It is one of the=20
>few distros where almost everything works right out of the box, with=20
>only little adjustments necessary.
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Art S. Kagel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:31:30 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On a single user workstation? Rarely. On an Internet Server with a Database
server providing data? Absolutely you can tell the difference.
Certainly for a single user system SCSI only makes sense if you want to take
advantage of the high speed peripherals and external connections that SCSI will
provide over EIDE. There are no EIDE scanners or external drive cabinets, and
SCSI tape drives still give better throughput. But is that enough to warrant
the extra expense, even in the US where the penalty is more like 40% than
double as it seems to be in Europe? You have to decide. I went SCSI, most do
not for a workstation. BTW my company uses SCSI in all of the WinNT
workstations here, and I have nothing to do with that, FWIW.
Art S. Kagel
Jerry Lapham wrote:
>
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/01/99
> at 06:48 AM, coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Here in the states my controller card cost me 120 bucks and my drive
> > (4.2 gig scsi) cost about 230 bucks.
>
> > Scsi is quite a bit faster than ide by nature.
>
> But with your normal application mix, can you tell the difference? If
> you're running mostly spreadsheets, word processing, etc., where
> everything is in memory except startup and saves and internet apps limited
> by the speed of your modem connection, does it really matter how fast (or
> slow) your hard disk is?
>
> -Jerry
> --
> ============================================================
> Jerry Lapham, Monroe, OH
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Written Sunday, August 01, 1999 - 04:36 PM (EDT)
> ============================================================
> MR/2 Ice tag: Trackball: a mouse that went belly up.
------------------------------
From: "A.T.Z." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: guaranteed annual income
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 20:52:39 +0200
Richard Kulisz schreef:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, A.T.Z. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In The Netherlands (here) nobody has to die because he or she doesn't have
> >a job. To many people without jobs are complaining about their situation
> >and they don't do a single thing to get a real job. I don't think I have
>
> If people are dying in a tidal wave, are you gonna complain they didn't
> "do a single thing to get" to higher ground?
You know much better then to place this comment.
> >an attitude problem. If a person has good health and he or she can work,
> >he or she has to do everything to get a real job. For people who do not
>
> And this "everything", does it involve organ selling, pushing drugs, or
> prostitution?
Do I really have to spell it out for you. Alright, someone should do everything
but may not do anything which is against the law.
> >succeed in getting a job social security should provide an income. Our
> >government has the policy that those people who don't want to find a job
>
> And you determine this how? "Hmmm, I don't think I like your face ..."
No by clear regulation a person must write at least x (I think it is 10, but
I'm not sure) letters in one month. Perhaps you don't like this.
> >get less money from social security. You can't compare the situation in
> >countries the way you do, some people would call it their culture and you
> >could really insult them with what you're saying.
>
> So your proposed solution is to beat people. If they aren't sufficiently
> obsequious then you whip them until they are.
HUH
> Helping people get jobs is possible, but it takes a lot of money; a
> hell of a lot more money than the pittance "welfare" gives people.
> So on the one hand, you're complaining about people being on welfare
> but the only reason they're on welfare is because you're a selfish
> stingy rat bastard.
You can help by not giving to much money if they're unemployed. This causes
some people to stop searching for a job. If you are unemployed you can get
education and the government reduces the cost if you hire people who are
unemployed for more then one year.
> >> The answer to your question is: you're the "loser," a "man" whose
> >> morals are still those of that first creature to drop from the tree
> >> and walk upright on the ground.
> >
> >Do you really want to insult me for my opinion?? And yes I would be a
> >loser if I was paying to much tax.
>
> He's not insulting you for your opinion, he's pointing out that you're
> an inhuman immoral creature with no empathy whatsoever for the plight
> of your fellows. And by attaching so much importance to your own petty
> selfish interests, you prove it.
What is inhuman and immoral if you require people who have good health and are
unemployed to do everything to get a job. Well, NOTHING. If they don't want to
find a job then it is their own choiche and I think they shouldn't get more
money from the government then the minimum required to stay alive. And perhaps
they shouldn't get money at all.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newbie in Houston
Date: 2 Aug 1999 15:42:19 -0400
On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:25:11 GMT, Chris wrote:
>Thanks albert! I just read about SuSe, and it sounds pretty. Anyone
>know anything about that OfficeWare it comes with?
It comes with Star Office. It *might* come with a demo of Applixware (
you can check this on their website ).
Applixware is commercial, ie you have to buy it for about US $80-.
It is IMO the nicest office suite for linux.
If you just want a word processor, there's also word perfect. There's
a free version ( which probably comes with SuSE. Check on their website )
and a commercial version which costs about $50, and has some extras like more
fonts and other stuff.
--
Donovan
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