Linux-Misc Digest #762, Volume #21 Sat, 11 Sep 99 09:13:18 EDT
Contents:
Re: Can't start X-window after upgrading to XFree86-3.3.5 rpm (Ed Flinn)
Re: URGENT - tar question (Stephen Waite)
Re: please help b4 my head bursts (Pat Heuvel)
Rescuing the console from an X lockup ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: gnome development environment (Adrian Hands)
Re: MS CD's (Per Steinar Iversen)
Re: How do you pronounce Linux? (Laurence W Reeves)
Re: Kernel 2.2.5-22 SMP/ Hang under high traffic load? (John Murtari)
C++ Error ("Jill")
Process ID and it relation with a window ("Mazdak")
Re: "autoexec.bat"-type service in Linux? (Troy Telford)
Re: Unable to load interpreter (Andrei A. Dergatchev)
Re: lint for c. (Adrian Hands)
Re: Kernel 2.2.5-22 SMP/ Hang under high traffic load? (John Murtari)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Matthias Warkus)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Anthony Ord)
Re: Req.: Experience with SyJet Drive (SyQuest) (Grant Guenther)
Re: making linux go away (Anthony White)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (William Wueppelmann)
Re: HTML editor for Linux (William Wueppelmann)
Re: Should I use Linux or Windows? (William Wueppelmann)
Re: Kernel 2.2.5-22 SMP/ Hang under high traffic load? (Bob Tennent)
a porgram for flow charts like SmartDraw ??? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Flinn)
Subject: Re: Can't start X-window after upgrading to XFree86-3.3.5 rpm
Date: 11 Sep 1999 10:21:13 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:04:13 -0400, Adrian Hands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>You need to install the pam RPM.
>You can get it from any of the sites listed at
>http://www.redhat.com/mirrors.html
>But it needs glib 1.2 and glibc 2.1, so it might be a good time to
>upgrade to RH6.0 ?
Well, for now I'll wait and see what shakes out. Right now I'm using
pam-0.64-4, which is what's current in Red Hat's 5.2/i386 directory.
--
Ed Flinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] : "Wouldn't you rather be involved in
(OS/390, AIX & Tru64 for a living, : a series of colorful time-wasting
Linux for the heck of it) : trends?" - FZ
Keep your processor warm & happy http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
------------------------------
From: Stephen Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: URGENT - tar question
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:28:29 -0400
The tape drive is a AIWA GD-E8000.
Unfortunately the tape drive can not move past the EOD mark.
For example, the first tar file on the tape (which should have been the last
one) goes from block 1 to block 860. The EOD mark is at 861. I am not able
to get past this position on the tape. I am trying John Nichols suggestion to
dd to the tape to overwrite the EOD mark and then turn the drive off so it
doesn't leave another mark. He thinks I should then be able to get to the
other tar files.
"Art S. Kagel" wrote:
> Try:
>
> mt -f /dev/nst0 fsf #Forward space file
>
> to move the tape to the second tape file. Then you can either use tar to
> extract the archive or dd to copy it to disk.
>
> (Note: BSD used to put two EOF markers at the end of a tape file requiring
> one to use mt -f /dev/nst0 fsf 2 instead, but, IMS, I do not think that
> Linux does that, FWIW.)
>
> Art S. Kagel
>
> Stephen Waite wrote:
> >
> > I am running RH 5.1 on an Intel system.
> >
> > There were many tar files on a scsi tape, however a small tar file was
> > written over the beginning of the tape thus corrupting a large tar file
> > that should have been the first tar file on the tape. I do not need to
> > recover this large tar file but I would like to have access to the rest
> > of the tar files on the tape.
> >
> > The problem was created by these commands in a script:
> >
> > cd dir1
> > tar cv file1 file2 .... > /dev/nst0
> >
> > cd dir2
> > tar cv file1 file2 .... > /dev/nst0
> >
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> > cd dir25
> > tar cv file1 file2 .... > /dev/st0 <-------- NOTE the mistake here
> >
> > cd dir26
> > tar cv file1 file2 .... > /dev/st0
> >
> > Thank you for your time.
------------------------------
From: Pat Heuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: please help b4 my head bursts
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:20:50 +1000
Gday Kev,
kev wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Linux thinks there is nothing on the floppy disk in my floppy drive,
<..>
Is it possible the floppy is an MS-DOS formatted floppy? have you tried
"mdir a:" ? Assuming, of course, you have the m-tools installed...
>
> TIA,
>
> Kev
HTH,
Pat
--
+---------------------------------------------------------+
+ "Logic clearly dictates, that the strokes of the many +
+ outweigh the strokes of the two..." +
+ (Apologies to Mr Spock) +
+---------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Rescuing the console from an X lockup
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:40:40 GMT
Once in a blue moon X windows crashes or locks up the console. This
happened to me yesterday when vmware took it down causing the console to
lock up completely and no key combination would take it back to text mode.
Luckily I have a dumb terminal connected to the PC too and could still log
in but neither X nor vmware were still running. I managed to free the console
in the end by switching run levels using init but is there a cleaner way
to do it?
NJR
------------------------------
From: Adrian Hands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: gnome development environment
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:42:11 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have two questions that I appreciate if you directly
> email me the responses:
>
> 1. Is GNOME only for linux or it being used on unix also?.
> 2. How can i start learning it?.
>
> Thank You,
> Habib M.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
New Riders just published a book on Gnome app development.
"GTK+/Gnome Application Development" (Havoc Pennington)
They also have a book on Gtk: "Developing Linux Applications with GTK+
and GDK" (Eric Harlow).
Both availabe from B&N, Amazon, FatBrain or your local bookstore.
Now, when is O'Reilly going to finally release something ?!?
We still NEED a book with good ORBIT coverage...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Per Steinar Iversen)
Subject: Re: MS CD's
Date: 11 Sep 1999 11:12:01 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:45:42 GMT, Lew Pitcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Could it be that your Linux box lacks Joliet support in it's iso9660 fs
>implementation?
No, I have checked, it is present.
-psu
------------------------------
From: Laurence W Reeves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How do you pronounce Linux?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:07:38 +0100
In article <7rbj8h$6s5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Edward
Westin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>It's Lynn-ux for the OS and Lie-nus for the guy. Don't ask me why though
>:-) Best Regards...
Curious... I have an english.au file tucked away here which says "My
name is Lea-nus Tour-vaulds and I pronounce Lea-nooks as Lea-nooks".
Someone must know where I got it from?
--
Laurence W Reeves
------------------------------
From: John Murtari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Kernel 2.2.5-22 SMP/ Hang under high traffic load?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:54:42 -0400
Got a recommendation to try 2.2.12-16 from RedHat's LORAX site --
does anyone have any other experience with this?
Best regards!
John Murtari wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> We are running RedHat 6 with the 2.2.5-22 (SMP) in a file
> server configuration. Ultra-SCSI disks and 3C905b network card.
>
> In the past several weeks we have experienced to system "hangs", i.e.
> no console response (not even ctl-alt-del), no net response, no
> logging -- only recovered by a hard reset.
>
> They seem to occur during periods of high network traffic. It is
> of GREAT management concern -- anyone have any experience with this,
> good solutions. We hate to try a random kernel upgrade -- have
> been considering 2.2.11.
>
> Best regards!
> --
> John
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Customer Service Software Workshop Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (315) 635-1968(x-211) "software that fits!" (TM)
> http://www.thebook.com/
--
------------------------------
From: "Jill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: C++ Error
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:21:38 -0700
Trying to do a simple compile for the first time and am getting the
following. Can someone tell me where I went wrong?
gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or directory
------------------------------
From: "Mazdak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Process ID and it relation with a window
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:53:50 GMT
Does any body know how I can get information fron X about the ownership of a
window by a process ? In another word, given a specific window, how can I
get the process Id whch create the window.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: "autoexec.bat"-type service in Linux?
From: Troy Telford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:40:13 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> An ignorant newbie writes:
>
> I have been overcome by the desire to regale all users of my Linux
> system with a welcome text which is to be created by a Perl-script
> and which will change daily.
>
> How can I ensure that the script is called up every time a user logs on?
> Under M$-DrOS it would be simply a case of inserting the command in
> AUTOEXEC.BAT . (Not a very good analogy I know, but it's the best I've
> got). What would be the "equivalent" procedure with Linux?
>
> Yours in anticipatory gratitude
>
> Schablonksi
>
> --
> It might seem like a stupid question to you, but I'm the one doing the
> asking.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
There's probably a better way, but an easy way (assuming you are using a
text-login and not the graphical X-Login) is to add the command to
/etc/profile. There is also the /etc/motd, which means "message of the
day" which can also be used to display a message.
At any rate, try using linuxconf to see about changing the motd.
I hope this helps some... and I hope that you can get a better reply than I
can offer...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrei A. Dergatchev)
Subject: Re: Unable to load interpreter
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:16:46 GMT
Can you search www.deja.com ?
It was asked already and you may find useful answer.
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:49:19 -0400, Humphrey Zhang
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is Mandrake 6.0, kernel of which has been upgraded to 2.2.10. Each
>time
>the system boot, after the line
> INIT: version 2.76
>there is a line read exactly like the subject of this message. The
>system doesn't have
>major problems after coming up, but, what is it?
>
>Jun
>
------------------------------
From: Adrian Hands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lint for c.
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:38 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shiva Persaud wrote:
>
> Where can I get lint.. the c debugger?
http://www.sds.lcs.mit.edu/lclint/
------------------------------
From: John Murtari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Kernel 2.2.5-22 SMP/ Hang under high traffic load?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:22:56 -0400
I had posted:
> We are running RedHat 6 with the 2.2.5-22 (SMP) in a file
> server configuration. Ultra-SCSI disks and 3C905b network card.
>
> In the past several weeks we have experienced to system "hangs", i.e.
> no console response (not even ctl-alt-del), no net response, no
> logging -- only recovered by a hard reset.
>
> They seem to occur during periods of high network traffic. It is
> of GREAT management concern -- anyone have any experience with this,
> good solutions. We hate to try a random kernel upgrade -- have
> been considering 2.2.11.
Your response:
> I see that the 2.2.12 kernels that were on the Rawhide site
> for a long time are now gone. I've installed the 2.2.12-6 kernel
> from the new lorax site and it seems to be OK. So the problem
> might have been only in the rawhide kernels; perhaps they were
> patched by Alan Cox in a non-standard way and the patches were
> bad. I had been wondering why there weren't more complaints
> on the news groups.
>
> I've reported the problem to http://developer.redhat.com/bugzilla/
> (bug 4925) if you want to track RedHat's response.
Thanks for your messages on this. I went to RedHat's Lorax
site and am in the process of building the: 2.2.12-9 Kernel.
The "hang" has occurred twice in the last three days and
it is QUITE a problem. Have see the following message on the
console display:
"Unable to handle kernel paging request"
"Aiee, killing interrupt handler"
"Kernel panic: Attempted to kill idle task"
It appears the system does not "sync", so none of this gets
into the log files.
This is on a Gateway ALR 7000 server with two Pentium-II (300).
Best regards (will also post this to the NewsGroup).
John
___________________________________________________________________
John Murtari Software Workshop Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 315.635-1968(x-211) "TheBook.Com" (TM)
http://www.thebook.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:57:14 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:22:48 -0700...
..and K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > It was the Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:11:54 -0700...
> > ..and K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Leeching fractals is worse, because you could simply fetch the data
> > > > and generate the graphics yourself.
> > > >
> > > > In fact, leeching fractals could be one of the dumbest-yet ways of
> > > > replacing computational power by bandwidth.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'll remember that. I've run several fractals which, even at 1024x768
> > > have taken several days to generate. Compared to (for my setup, at any
> > > rate) about a second and a half to download the .gif, this makes my mind
> > > boggle.
> > >
> > > Assuming 3 days and 3 seconds, your method is 86,400 times less
> > > efficient. Let me guess; you're an advocate of single-user, single-
> > > tasking OSen, too. :)
> >
> > This is not about efficiency, but about being considerate towards
> > other people. *You*'re the one with the single-user mentality here.
> > Computational power is yours alone, if your computer computes, no load
> > is put on other people's machines. However, the bandwidth you waste
> > downloading a 1024x768 image from the Net is shared with other people.
>
> And I should care why?
"Yes, my car sucks 20 litres per 100 kilometres, and the catalytic
converter is a bit out of whack, so I produce two hundred times as
much noxious fumes as the average car. ... And I should care why?"
> Put it this way: I download a handful of fractals a week; total traffic
> on the order of 5-10Mb per week. Dr. Porn on the other hand, typically
> downloads 1-2Mb a minute, when he's on.
"See, there are coal-fired power plants burning thousand tons of coal
a day, when they're on."
> Assuming 500Kb/minute for him, and 10Mb/week for me, and assuming he
> spends 2 hours a day doing it, his total usage is 420Mb - compared to my
> 10. You're complaining that I'm having 42 times less impact on things
> than Dr. Porn? And your answer to this is to use an approach which is
> 86,000 times less efficient, in my terms?
>
> Usability isn't a big issue for you, is it? :)
"Mobility isn't a big issue for you, is it?"
mawa
--
Some people seem to have a kind of key to life. They've got an easy
way to decode it, or either to strip it clean of everything that
doesn't go with their model of it. Other people have got to face it in
its entirety, or at least what looks like its entirety. -- mawa
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:35:14 GMT
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:41:46 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NF Stevens) wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>On an Airbus plane, however, the plane won't LET the pilot do certain
>>stupid things.
>
>Which is all very well until the plane decides that it would
>be stupid to open the undercarriage while still in the air.
Or gets stuck in landing mode while over a forestry block.
Another example is the F16 vs the Su37. The Americans take the view excessive
forces shorten airframe life so they restrict what the fly-by-wire will allow
the pilot to do. The Russians take the view getting hit by a missile shortens
air-frame life, so they don't restrict what the pilot can do.
>Norman
Regards
Anthony
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Guenther)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.hardware,de.comp.os.unix.linux.hardware,de.comp.os.unix.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Req.: Experience with SyJet Drive (SyQuest)
Date: 11 Sep 1999 11:48:36 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:50:17 -0700,
David Rabanus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The problem that I have is that I don't have a SCSI bus. I have to use
>their Parallel-2-SCSI cable. I heard that there are special drivers needed.
Visit http://www.torque.net/parport/
==========================================================================
Grant R. Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED]
==========================================================================
------------------------------
From: Anthony White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.caldera,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: making linux go away
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:50:08 +1000
Mohd H Misnan wrote:
>
> On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:06:16 -0300, Dario Andrade wrote:
> >Taking advantage of this conversation, how do I SETUP lilo on my MBR??
> >
> >I mean, the easiest way, without having to read tons of man pages to do
> >something really stupid (in my opinion)...
>
> Have the following in your /etc/lilo.conf:
Here is my system:
1st SCSI drive 4.3Gb
OS/2 Boot manager
DOS 6.22 with dual boot to WinNT 4 with SP5
Win95 Ohhhhnoooo....
Os2 Data partition
Os2 Boot partition
2nd SCSI drive 4.3Gb
Linux 100Mb boot partition
NTFS (NT partition)
OS2 partition HPFS
Linux root partition 100Mb
Linux / partition
3rd SCSI drive 4.3Gb
2Gb BeOs 4.5 partition
2.3 Gb Linux partition
And no, I am not trying to show off, many people have 13Gb or larger
drives.
It is simply to show what can be done with IBM's Boot Manager
which is also included in Partition Magic 3.
Lilo is placed on the boot sector of the Linux boot partition
on SCSI drive 2.
All the above is driven by an Adaptec 2940U controler.
Works like a charm...
Anthony
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Wueppelmann)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:54:39 GMT
In our last episode (Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:27:51 -0700),
the artist formerly known as K. Bjarnason said:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>>
>> Linux is just a kernel. Generally, when one talks about Linux, they
>> mean distros in general. In terms of package management, each on
>> handles things differently. SuSE, for one thing, is capable of
>> handling dependancies itself if you're installing things from CD.
>>
>>
>
>Oh, marvellous. Wasn't Linux's strong point supposed to be
>standardization?
Was it? At any rate, a standard just means that there are many different
applications that conform to a common set of specifications. The nice
thing about standards is that it allows you to have different distributions
that do things differently and yet still have a common base that ensures a
common base of functionality and interoperability.
>So now we have umpteen different distros, with
>different package managers, with different GUIs, with different...
>
>Windows may not be perfect, but at least the user doesn't have to worry
>that just because he bought his copy from vendor A instead of vendor B,
>even the way he installs applications is totally different. :)
Why would the Linux user have to worry either? When they went to Linux
school, they learned how to install Red Hat but they went out and bought
SuSE so now they're lost? Anyone who doesn't want to learn more than one
way of installing applications is free to choose a single distribution and
go with that.
Someone who uses Windows 95 rev. B doesn't need to know anything about
95A, 95C, 98, 98, 98SE, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, NT3.51 or NT4. There are lots and
lots of Windows variations, and there are going to be lots and lots more
within a year. But most users will happily use Windows 95 not even
knowing that there is a version A, B and C. Linux is no different. In
that respect, I mean :->
This "less choice is good" mentality, apart from being generally dismissive
of human capability (if not desire) to learn is really a red herring.
After all, for any particular distribution of Linux, there is only one
package management system (at most :-)
>Let me know when *Linux* has *a* standard GUI, with *a* standard - and
>GUI-based - method of installing applications, and we'll compare it to
>Windows in terms of ease-of-use for the end user.
Once again, this is a really silly argument. Why does more choice make
Linux any more complicated to learn? You don't want to learn how to use
fvwm? Then don't! It's that easy. Nothing requires you to learn how to
use every Window manager just to use X! The fact that you have a choice is
a Good Thing. You can evaluate all or some of the wm's, maybe ask some
friends who use them what they think, pick the one that sounds the most
appealing and use that one. Or, if you really want a Windows-like
experience, just get someone else to dictate to you which window manager to
use and learn that one whether it's the best for you or not.
How much time do you think I've wasted learning how to adapt the Win32 GUI
to my needs? Wouldn't it have been simpler for me if there were a GUI for
WinDOS that suited my needs and my computing style? Instead, I've had to
learn how to trick and defeat the system to make it work the way I want.
The Win32 GUI is too complicated for many people, too simple for others.
The only people who might care about having a variety of GUIs are technical
support people and others who work on other peoples' machines. And to TS
people who can't learn multiple interfaces, I say TS; your job is to
understand how complex systems work.
>Oh, and let's not forget other little issues that go along with that,
>such as standardized GUI-driven uninstall mechanisms, so the user knows
>exactly where he has to look to remove an application if he wants -
>something equivalent to add/remove programs.
You mean things like dselect?
Since Unix programs tend not to scatter themselves to the four winds when
they install, it's usually not difficult to clean them up when you no
longer want them anyway.
I'd also say that a large majority of the times I've used the Windows
uninstaller, I get the message
"could not uninstall all components. You will have to uninstall the
remaining components manually. [But I'm not going to tell you which
components those are...]"
The uninstaller is like most of the rest of the Windows system maintenance
tools. It would be great if it worked, but since it doesn't it's actually
detrimental, because it hides the details of what's going on from you under
the pretext that it is going to do these things for you, and then fails to
do it properly, leaving you with nowhere to turn.
--
It is pitch black.
You are likely to be spammed by a grue.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Wueppelmann)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: HTML editor for Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:54:40 GMT
In our last episode (10 Sep 1999 15:09:26 GMT),
the artist formerly known as Donal K. Fellows said:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Rene Grothmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I am looking for an HTML editor for Linux. Should do the following
>> (those are personal preferences, please no flames):
>> * WYSIWYG (I already have a good source editor)
>
>FYI, WYSIWYG is incompatible with HTML. What about people browsing
>your page from a site with a much higher screen resolution? Or a much
>lower screen resolution? Of from a text-mode browser like Lynx? Or
>from a system that doesn't support visual output at all (e.g. one used
>by a blind person?) And what about if someone decides to print your
>page out, hmm?
The best comment I've read re HTML is that HTML is at the same time one
dimensional and multi-dimensional. It is multi-dimensional in the sense
that hyperlinks allow a complex nonlinear navigational method. But it is
one dimensional in that the *only* thing you can guarantee about the layout
and presentation of an individual HTML document is the order of
presentation -- A will come before B which will come before C; no other
spatial relationships can be guaranteed, and no other relationships should
be counted on.
Anyone who believes in WYSIWYG in Web development is fooling themselves,
and in the process, are probably seriously damaging the accessibility of
their sites for anyone with dissimilar hardware or software.
--
It is pitch black.
You are likely to be spammed by a grue.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Wueppelmann)
Subject: Re: Should I use Linux or Windows?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:54:41 GMT
In our last episode (Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:01:38 -0500),
the artist formerly known as Richard Steiner said:
>Here in comp.os.linux.misc, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(William Wueppelmann) spake unto us, saying:
>
>>How many of us learned about Linux and came to appreciate it because we
>>installed it and played around with it?
>
>Point acknowledged. :-)
>
>Possible counterpoint: how many of us were (1) technically literate and
>(2) possessed of at least a rough idea about what we were getting into
>with a Unix-like operating system before we did so?
Point acknowledged. :-)
OTOH, what I *thought* I knew about Unix and what I found out I knew about
Unix once I had Slackware up and running for a few hours were a world
apart. When I finally reached the point where I understood a lot, but I
also realized how much more I didn't understand and how much there would
always be that I didn't know, I think I became truly technically literate.
But it took a lot of programming and OS experience--especially with Unix
systems--to arrive at that understanding.
I wouldn't recommend Linux to a home user who wasn't interested in a lot of
learning and a fair bit of frustration, but I wouldn't let a lack of
previous experience deter them. For people whose principal interest in
computers is to get work done and who really aren't interested in how a
multiuser OS works, Linux is probably not a good choice. Unless they're
fortunate enough to work in an environment that had an IS staff that
installed, maintained and supported Linux workstations for "normal" use.
Ah, we can dream anyway.
--
It is pitch black.
You are likely to be spammed by a grue.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Tennent)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Kernel 2.2.5-22 SMP/ Hang under high traffic load?
Date: 11 Sep 1999 12:50:56 GMT
Reply-To: rdt(a)cs.queensu.ca
On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:22:56 -0400, John Murtari wrote:
>
> The "hang" has occurred twice in the last three days and
>it is QUITE a problem. Have see the following message on the
>console display:
>
> "Unable to handle kernel paging request"
> "Aiee, killing interrupt handler"
> "Kernel panic: Attempted to kill idle task"
>
> It appears the system does not "sync", so none of this gets
>into the log files.
>
This seems much more serious than what I was getting (slow network).
Bob T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: a porgram for flow charts like SmartDraw ???
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:01:09 GMT
hi every one
I'm looking for a good program to draw flowcharts as SmartDraw or
micrografix flowcharter
for linux
any one can help where to find such a program ...??
thanks in advance
--
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