Linux-Misc Digest #512, Volume #24 Thu, 18 May 00 09:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Lee Sau Dan)
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Mark Wilden)
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Lee Sau Dan)
Re: WordPerfect (Bill Delphenich)
Oops (kernel error) (Arnaud Kok)
Re: Useful tip (Andreas Kahari)
Re: Motif release to Open Source Community leads to Open Motif Everywhere (Jay
Maynard)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Lee Sau Dan)
Re: Cannot enter yast2 using SuSE 6.4 (and the right password) ? ("Roger J. Pryor")
Re: Corel Linux and WINE (Chad Lemmen)
Re: computer viruses on LINUX (Gareth)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: 18 May 2000 19:44:11 +0800
>>>>> "Pjtg0707" == Pjtg0707 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Pjtg0707> BTW, Dreamweaver is not really true WYSIWYG, but closer
Pjtg0707> compare to something like HotDog. It's more like a 'GUI
Pjtg0707> interface' to the html editor; it will only allow you to
Pjtg0707> do what the tags allow you to do. A true WYSIWYG would
Pjtg0707> be something liek Word, where you can do just about
Pjtg0707> anything you want on the page, but it fills in the codes
Pjtg0707> so you can do WYSIWYG, hence all Word html files are
Pjtg0707> full of cryptic stuffs no human are willing to type in
Pjtg0707> an ascii editor.
Exactly. A WYSIWYG editor is different from a GUI editor.
BTW, why don't we Linuxer do this: Write a WYSIWYG editor, which
generates web pages in Postscript. The editor would automatically add
a first page, telling people that "This page is best viewed with GNU
Ghostscript (or Ghostview). Click here to download free GNU
Ghostscript."? Why can a web page be "best viewed with <a certain
browser of the latest version> and a display resolution of <whatever
pleases the designer, which usually means a large screen>", but not
"best viewed with Ghostscript" or "best viewed by printing it on
Postscript printer"?
--
Lee Sau Dan ���u��(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:50:47 +0100
Lee Sau Dan wrote:
>
> Not to mention that some HTTP clients don't *see*: Blind people use
> special devices to turn the text into a form they can "read".
> Machines (e.g. Search Engines, robots, web-crawlers) simply parse the
> text, without understand what "background-color=blue" means.
But just because _some_ clients don't care about appearance doesn't mean
that the vast majority of them don't.
The Web as it stands today is a primarily visual medium. It behooves
good designers to make their sites both visually appealing, as well as
accessible to those clients who don't care about visuals. Since both can
be accomplished, I don't understand why some folks think there is a war
between content and presentation on the Web.
------------------------------
From: Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: 18 May 2000 19:58:06 +0800
>>>>> "Dances" == Dances With Crows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Dances> [0] What You See Is ALMOST What You Get.
And these tools are often WSINWYW (What You See Is Not What You
**Want**). Yes, you get what you SEE, but that's useless unless you
can get what you WANT seen on the screen. (Ever struggled with those
confusing menus for hours without succeeding in getting the most
simple things done automatically?)
--
Lee Sau Dan ���u��(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: Bill Delphenich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WordPerfect
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:04:49 -0400
> But, I'm still reserving judgement until I get to see something "in the
> flesh".
One thing I would add here is that Corel always puts out buggy early releases.
Eventually they get it cleaned up and working, but it takes a while. I have been
using their stuff for many years and it has always been the same with them. It is
just the way they do things. I just got Service Pack 3 for their Windows Suite and
it finally seems to have taken care of most of the worst problems in that product.
Just don't get too far ahead of things and you'll be ok.
------------------------------
From: Arnaud Kok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Oops (kernel error)
Date: 18 May 2000 12:09:33 GMT
Hi,
Today I had an (well 3 actually) oops. I noticed that xosview was gone, so I
ran ps and got a segmentation fault. I tried it 3 times and each time i got
a segmentation fault. Then I started netscape to check dejanews/other
resources to see if i could find any info. The result was that linux crashed.
I rebooted and checked /var/log/messages (I run rh 6.0).
I have written down (hopefully) relevantinfo in parts. The outputs are
written within the asterikses and i sometimes have a line of comment between
this.
The info for xosview was (from /var/log/messages):
*************************************************
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: invalid operand: 0000
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: CPU: 0
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: EIP: 0010:[get_kstat+375/388]
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010206
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: eax: 00000031 ebx: 000000e0 ecx: c1e902e
c edx: 00000031
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: esi: 000002ed edi: c1e902bc ebp: 0000000
1 esp: c28e5f1c
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: Process xosview (pid: 562, process nr: 31, s
tackpage=c28e5000)
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: Stack: 76e73d38 38c37581 00012e24 00000000 c
28e5f98 00000400 c1e90000 c1e902bc
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: c014114a c1e90000 00000011 00000000 c
0141436 c1e90000 00000011 c28e5f98
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: 00000000 00000400 c2df3cc0 ffffffea 0
0000000 00000400 fffffff4 c010ba9e
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: Call Trace: [get_root_array+314/472] [array_
read+266/568] [old_mmap+174/232] [sys_read+174/196] [system_call+52/56]
May 18 10:15:59 hst3528 kernel: Code: 8d f0 83 c4 14 5b 5e 5f fd 83 c4 04 c3
83 ec 14 56 56 53 8b
***********************************************************
So I tried memtest86, there where no errors detected.
The ps commands gave me the oopses with the output:
***********************************************************
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging request at vi
rtual address c81cdb28
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 016a8000, %cr3 = 016a8000
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: *pde = 00000000
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: Oops: 0000
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: CPU: 0
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: EIP: 0010:[get_uptime+6/152]
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: eax: c2717000 ebx: 00000000 ecx: 000003f
f edx: 00000001
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: esi: c2449f98 edi: 000003ff ebp: c271700
0 esp: c2449f24
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: Process ps (pid: 12541, process nr: 79, stac
kpage=c2449000)
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: Stack: c2449f98 c176d020 c271700c c0129013 c
3d00f20 00000246 c01410d6 c2717000
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: 00000003 00000000 c0141436 c2717000 0
0000003 c2449f98 00000000 000003ff
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: c15ef540 ffffffea 00000000 000003ff 0
8049120 bffff9fc 00000003 c2449f98
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: Call Trace: [lookup_dentry+367/484] [get_roo
t_array+198/472] [array_read+266/568] [filp_open+68/240] [sys_read+174/196]
[system_call+52/56]
May 18 10:45:29 hst3528 kernel: Code: 8b 1d 28 db 1c c8 a1 2c db 1c c0 8b 80
d5 00 00 00 8b 3d 2c
*******************************************************
Then after checking dejanews a bit I ran ksymoops on the above info.
The output for xosview was:
*******************************************************
Code: 00000000 Before first symbol 00000000 <_IP>: <===
Code: 00000000 Before first symbol 0: 8d
lea (bad),%esi <===
Code: 00000001 Before first symbol 1: f0 83 c4 14
lock add $0x14,%esp
Code: 00000005 Before first symbol 5: 5b
pop %ebx
Code: 00000006 Before first symbol 6: 5e
pop %esi
Code: 00000007 Before first symbol 7: 5f
pop %edi
Code: 00000008 Before first symbol 8: fd
std
Code: 00000009 Before first symbol 9: 83 c4 04
add $0x4,%esp
Code: 0000000c Before first symbol c: c3
ret
Code: 0000000d Before first symbol d: 83 ec 14
sub $0x14,%esp
Code: 00000010 Before first symbol 10: 56
push %esi
Code: 00000011 Before first symbol 11: 56
push %esi
Code: 00000012 Before first symbol 12: 53
push %ebx
Code: 00000013 Before first symbol 13: 8b 00
mov (%eax),%eax
************************************************
and for ps:
*************************************************
Code: 00000000 Before first symbol 00000000 <_IP>: <===
Code: 00000000 Before first symbol 0: 8b 1d 28 db 1c c8
mov 0xc81cdb28,%ebx <===
Code: 00000006 Before first symbol 6: a1 2c db 1c c0
mov 0xc01cdb2c,%eax
Code: 0000000b Before first symbol b: 8b 80 d5 00 00 00
mov 0xd5(%eax),%eax
Code: 00000011 Before first symbol 11: 8b 3d 2c 00 00 00
mov 0x2c,%edi
*************************************************
So my question is: What happened (I don't understand the output)? The
coputer works fine now, but will it happen again and if so what can i do
to prevent it?
For the record I run r.h. 6.0 (with updates) on a P200MMX, 64Mb SDRAM,
ASUS TX97 motherboard running 2.2.13.
---
Grt,
Arnaud.
------------------------------
From: Andreas Kahari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Useful tip
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:00:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Prasanth Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just noticed that you can press [scroll lock] while Linux is booting
> to
> pause the flow of information in case it goes by too fast! Press it
> again
> to resume. I never thought of this before some maybe it will be useful
> to
> others when they are troubleshooting.
You can get a lot of info about the booting process through the 'dmesg'
command too...
/A
--
# Andreas K�h�ri, <URL:http://hello.to/andkaha/>.
# All junk email is reported to the appropriate authorities.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jay Maynard)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Motif release to Open Source Community leads to Open Motif Everywhere
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:28:11 GMT
On Thu, 18 May 2000 11:12:38 +0100, phil hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Of course, the distinction is rapidly becoming almost irrelevant: the only
>closed-source Unix which is likely to remain around is Solaris. The others
>(IRIX, AIX, HP-UX) are likely to be abandoned, and their best features
>subsumed into Linux.
While this may be true for IRIX, I'm not so sure about HP-UX, and not at all
sure about AIX, and pretty certain that Tru64 Unix is not going to be
abandoned any time soon. Don't forget, also, the up-and-coming Monterrey,
from IBM and SCO...
Just because a company embraces Linux in the press doesn't necessarily mean
its own proprietary Unix is going away any time soon.
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 18 May 2000 12:19:01 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: I want to click on a damn button and have the program install. I want
: the option to do it by hand if I have to, but installing anything on
: Linux is a nightmare if you have to build it from the source. Note
I do it for everything on my system, and I never have the least
trouble. I suspect you mean "it's a nightmare for those who can't".
: also that "make install" will occasionally break, depending on your
: distribution. And they all seem to be going in tangential directions
: on this one.
I use slackware and debian, and have no problems with either. I'd never
touch redhat with a bargepole, since it's as nonstandard as hell. But
even srpms' come ready-packaged. One just has to open them,
look at their spec file and makefile, edit to taste, and go. Apply
whatever patches look neccessary after examining them closely and
with suspicion. Remove all RH non-standard placements, and fire.
: There's just no excuse for not having an adequate installer. We have
The installers I have are very adequate (make and tar). And from what
I've seen the distros have excellenet installers too. I can understand
peoples problems with rpm, because it never brought anything to the
table except obscurantism (yes, slackware already had all the tools
and options in tgz, except for something that prevented you breaking
your own dependencies, and why would you ..). Apt-get solves most things
in debian .. it has a layering problem, in that you can import
something with apt-get and then install it with dpkg, which may leave you
needing to upgrade something else and apt-get didn't get a chance
to warn you. I had this experience recently when I upgrade libc6
and broke cucipop .. just the pop3 function. It took me a week to
discover and upgrade cucipop. I imagine that the breakage wasn't known
at the time I upgraded libc6.
: two excellent package-management tools, dpkg (and apt) and rpm. All
: we have to do is put a shiny new GUI front-end on them.
: Not that I am bitter.
:-)
Peter
------------------------------
From: Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: 18 May 2000 20:26:58 +0800
>>>>> "lkollar" == lkollar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
lkollar> Praedor says: Visual additions such as color,
lkollar> bold/italic, and graphics are enhancements. They improve
lkollar> the readability of the document. We can't expect the
lkollar> world to be text-only.
*Proper* use of colours, bold/italic and graphics are enhancements.
But how many people are using them properly nowadays? They now use
them not because it is necessary or useful, but to show off their own
technical skills. However, they're also telling people that they are
bad designers. The abused colours (including bad colour
combinations), bold/italics and graphics, make what they write very
very distractive. Their spending of hours on the colours,
bold/italics and graphics often means their lack of time on the
*contents*, *organization* and *presentation* of what they write.
So, what's the result? Is it better, in terms of quality?
lkollar> Larry says: Overuse of visual additions such as frames,
lkollar> table-based layouts, large gratuitous graphics, and
lkollar> proprietary NS/IE extensions are problems. They produce
lkollar> pages that cannot be displayed properly under many
lkollar> real-world conditions.
Even if all those pages can be displayed as desired by the author,
improper use of such facilities can make the result bad. (I
personally hate fix-sized (in terms of no. of pixels) frames, because
that means that when I use larger fonts or a lower-resultion display,
the page would look very very ugly.
lkollar> No beef with that. My beef is with the overdesigned pages
lkollar> that stick everything in tables or frames, put all links
lkollar> are in a huge map (or worse, javascript), embedded <FONT>
lkollar> tags running loose everywhere...
And there are pages on which the whole page is just 1 graphics file
(or a fragmented one -- to make loading faster?).
--
Lee Sau Dan ���u��(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: "Roger J. Pryor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Cannot enter yast2 using SuSE 6.4 (and the right password) ?
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:56:41 GMT
Hi:
I have just completed an installation of SuSE 6.4, during which I found
that yast2 bombed completely
I had no problems with yast1, the text-based version.
You may have to boot with the setup disk and go into the emergency recovery,
which is several screens in, when it asks if you want to install from scratch
etc, take the third line (I think) for recovery. You will wind up with
a single user system. You can then mount the main partion, / on /mnt (create
the mnt directory first), then goto
the /etc directory and edit the file passwd, (make a copy first) and delete
the password for root. Then _unmount_ the / partition and
reboot the system and then try again with a null password. It _may_ work!
Rick wrote:
> TomG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Aron Felix Gurski wrote:
> > >
> > > Rick wrote:
> > > > I have installed suse 6.4 without any poblems. During installation i
> > had to
> > > > fill in a loginname and 2 passwords. One password as a user and one
> > password
> > > > as a administartor
> > > > 1) I cannot loggin as a system administrator (ROOT) using ofcourse the
> > right
> > > > password.
> > > > 2) I can loggin as a user but i cannot enter yast2...(using the right
> > > > password as a administrator)
> > > >
> > > > When i want to enter yast and i type my (administartor) password...no
> > > > characters (******) appaer on the screen, instead yast shuts down
> > wtithout a
> > > > warning.
> > > >
> > > > What is wrong ?
> > >
> > > It sounds like you are typing in the wrong password for root. Are you
> > sure that
> > > you typed it correctly during the installation of the system? Are you
> > taking
> > > into account that there is a difference between upper and lower case
> > letters in
> > > passwords?
> > >
> > > --
> > > -- Aron
> > >
> > > NB: To reply by e-mail, remove "spam-block." from my address.
> > > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Eagles soar but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine.
> >
> > I'd just like to add to this that Linux doesn't show characters for
> > passwords. Otherwise, I entirely agree with Aron.
>
> No Characters when I fill in the "root password" for YAST...that means no
> ******** or any other character (or number) like RRPP7361 or what so ever
> !!!!
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > TomG
> >
> >
> > --
> > Posted via CNET Help.com
> > http://www.help.com/
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Roger J. Pryor P. Eng. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pryor and Pryor Inc. Telephone: (+1)(604) 685-2621
602 - 1230 Comox Street Fax: (+1)(604) 683-3488
Vancouver, B.C., Internet: http://www.pryor-and-pryor.com
V6E 1K7, Canada
------------------------------
From: Chad Lemmen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel Linux and WINE
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:52:29 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Chad Lemmen wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Giles Hamlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I am in the process of learning Corel Linux Deluxe 1.0 and wanted
to
> > try to
> > > run a couple of Windows Apps in it.
> > >
> > > However, to a newbie, the WINE site is confusing to say the least.
Can
> > > anyone give me any tips - what parts to download, how to install
it,
> > how to
> > > run it etc?
> > >
> > > Much obliged!!!
> > >
> > > Giles
> > >
> >
> > I've never tried WINE, but I just installed Win4Lin and it works
great
> > for running Windows apps. It's different than WINE as it actually
has
> > you install Windows from the Win CD. So you then run the apps right
in
> > Windows. WINE lets the apps run on Linux natively. Win4Lin is just
> > like Merge for SCO UNIX. The price is $49.95, but I think its worth
it.
> > Their web site is http://www.win4lin.com and you can read a review
of
> > it at http://www.aplawrence.com/Reviews/win4lin.html
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
> This is interesting. Has anyone had any experience with both vmware
> (www.vmware.com) and win4lin? How do they compare?
>
> --
> Blake LeBaron
>
Trelos has a comparison on their web site but it may be biased since
they make win4lin.
http://www.trelos.com/trelos/Trelos/Products/Win4Lin_Whitepaper.htm
Its towards the bottom of the page.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gareth)
Subject: Re: computer viruses on LINUX
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:06:16 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I believe Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said on Mon, 08 May 2000 07:59:35
+0100, that:
>It's 'viruses' (or 'viri' if you really must). There's no such word as
>'virii'.
>
>Pet peeve. Carry on.
In my travels I came accross
viri
virii
viriii
viriv etc...
depending on the No. concerned :-)
Keep on Groovin'
gareth
http://www.backstage.co.za/gareth
------------------------------
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