Linux-Misc Digest #925, Volume #24 Sun, 25 Jun 00 14:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Who is loading the system and why? (David Steuber)
Re: [JOB] Debian installer needed near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
WordPerfect 8: icons mangled ("G Pollack")
Re: formating a drive under linux :\ (Robert Heller)
Re: Sun Sparc faster then intel pentium: is this true???? ("Dave Schanen")
Re: Who is loading the system and why? (J Bland)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Who is loading the system and why?
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:00:01 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J Bland) writes:
' >Why do you think it is being loaded?
'
' Because there is roughly an average of 1 process waiting in the queue, but
' the cpu is practically idle. This can be confusing if you consider LA to be
' cpu-based only.
Aye, it is the load average I am concerned about.
' What is most probably causing it is an IO process of some sort; a big ftp
' job, copying lots of files, that sort of thing, which doesn't use much cpu
' but hammers the various IO devices.
The disk is quiet. The network is quiet.
' Do a ps aux, and see if there's anything obviously working away that shifts
' data.
david@solo:> uptime
12:37pm up 13:09, 3 users, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00
david@solo:> ps aux
USER PID %CPU %MEM SIZE RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND
at 162 0.0 0.4 1264 552 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/atd
david 248 0.0 3.3 6640 4332 ? S 23:29 0:03 kwm
david 314 0.0 2.6 6024 3364 ? S 23:29 0:00 kwmsound
david 317 0.0 3.7 8468 4752 ? S 23:29 0:01 kfm -d
david 323 0.0 2.9 6452 3756 ? S 23:29 0:01 kbgndwm
david 326 0.0 2.7 6108 3580 ? S 23:29 0:00 krootwm
david 329 0.0 3.4 6736 4448 ? S 23:29 0:01 kpanel
david 330 0.0 1.2 6224 1652 ? S 23:29 0:00 kaudioserver
david 331 0.0 1.9 6264 2468 ? S 23:29 0:00 maudio -media 0
david 336 0.0 3.2 6568 4144 ? S 23:29 0:12 kvt -restore kvtrc.27
david 342 0.0 1.0 2308 1388 p0 S 23:29 0:00 bash
david 491 0.4 12.8 18612 16496 ? S 23:57 3:07 /usr/X11R6/bin/xemacs
david 633 0.0 2.1 3696 2728 ? S 00:02 0:00 /usr/bin/ispell -a -m
david 806 0.0 3.3 6656 4228 ? S 00:16 0:00 kvt -T ption Terminal
david 807 0.0 1.0 2292 1340 p1 S 00:16 0:00 bash
david 821 0.0 0.4 1436 588 p1 S 00:16 0:00 rlogin interloper
david 824 0.0 0.4 1440 596 p1 S 00:17 0:00 rlogin interloper
david 967 0.0 9.0 18228 11576 ? S 01:39 0:03 /opt/netscape128/nets
david 968 0.0 2.6 14828 3388 ? S 01:40 0:00 (dns helper)
david 2178 0.0 0.4 1188 544 p0 R 12:37 0:00 ps aux
root 1 0.0 0.1 368 196 ? S 23:27 0:05 init [3]
root 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW 23:27 0:00 (kflushd)
root 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW 23:27 0:00 (kupdate)
root 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW 23:27 0:00 (kpiod)
root 5 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW 23:27 0:00 (kswapd)
root 81 0.0 0.4 1240 620 ? S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/cardmgr
root 122 0.0 0.5 1472 648 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/syslogd
root 125 0.0 0.6 1452 768 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/klogd -c 1
root 157 0.0 0.3 1124 468 ? D 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/apmd -w 10
root 158 0.0 0.3 1124 468 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/apmd -w 10
root 164 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW 23:28 0:00 (rpciod)
root 167 0.0 0.4 1440 572 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
root 180 0.0 0.4 1492 624 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/lpd
root 201 0.0 0.4 1288 632 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/cron
root 208 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 209 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 210 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 211 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 212 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 213 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 214 0.0 0.6 1556 804 ? S 23:28 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 222 0.0 0.3 1112 448 1 S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/mingetty --nocl
root 223 0.0 0.3 1112 448 2 S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty2
root 224 0.0 0.3 1112 448 3 S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty3
root 225 0.0 0.3 1112 448 4 S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty4
root 226 0.0 0.3 1112 448 5 S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty5
root 227 0.0 0.3 1112 448 6 S 23:28 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty6
root 228 0.0 1.7 5728 2272 ? S 23:28 0:00 /opt/kde/bin/kdm
root 230 0.1 5.7 15872 7364 ? S 23:28 0:55 /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 v
root 231 0.0 2.4 6124 3152 ? S 23:28 0:00 -:0
root 477 0.0 0.9 2224 1152 ? S 23:56 0:00 sendmail: accepting c
david@solo:> netstat
Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State
tcp 0 0 solo.david-steuber:1086 interloper.david-s:nntp ESTABLISHED
tcp 0 0 solo.david-steuber:1048 websites.steuber.co:www CLOSE
tcp 1 0 solo.david-steuber:1047 interloper.david-st:www CLOSE_WAIT
tcp 1 0 solo.david-steuber:1046 interloper.david-st:www CLOSE_WAIT
tcp 1 0 solo.david-steuber:1044 interloper.david-st:www CLOSE_WAIT
tcp 0 0 solo.david-steuber:1023 interloper.david-:login ESTABLISHED
udp 0 0 solo.david-steuber:1024 world4.bellatlan:domain
Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
Proto RefCnt Flags Type State I-Node Path
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 328 @0000003f
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 326 @0000003e
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 312 @00000038
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 1047 @000000fd
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 324 @0000003d
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 314 @00000039
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 322 @0000003c
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 196 @0000000f
unix 1 [ N ] STREAM CONNECTED 320 @0000003b
unix 1 [ N ] STREAM CONNECTED 690 @000000ae
unix 1 [ N ] STREAM CONNECTED 1171 @00000112
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 101 @00000002
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 591 @0000008d
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 97 @00000001
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 241 @00000022
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 155 @00000006
unix 1 [ N ] STREAM CONNECTED 337 @00000041
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 136 @00000004
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 112 @00000003
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 1172 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 1048 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 691 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 592 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 338 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 329 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 327 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 325 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 323 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 321 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 315 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 313 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 242 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 199 /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 156 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 137 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 113 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 102 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 98 /dev/log
So what process is pushing my load average up from the normal 0.0, when
all is quiet? My other machine seems to have nothing going on:
david@Interloper:> uptime
12:42pm up 14 days, 10:04, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
david@Interloper:> ps aux
USER PID %CPU %MEM SIZE RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND
at 212 0.0 0.0 1160 112 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/atd
bin 144 0.0 0.1 1052 216 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /sbin/portmap
david 2090 0.0 0.4 2204 596 1 S Jun 17 0:00 -bash
david 10013 0.0 0.5 2180 692 2 S Jun 20 0:00 -bash
david 17963 0.0 0.4 2176 552 3 S Jun 22 0:00 -bash
david 24777 0.0 1.0 2196 1336 ? S 00:16 0:00 -bash
david 26069 0.0 0.4 1088 524 ? R 12:42 0:00 ps aux
news 25905 0.0 4.2 5988 5424 ? S 10:51 0:02 leafnode
root 1 0.0 0.0 368 64 ? S Jun 11 0:13 init [2]
root 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:10 (kflushd)
root 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jun 11 1:51 (kupdate)
root 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:00 (kpiod)
root 5 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:06 (kswapd)
root 6 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:00 (md_thread)
root 148 0.0 0.0 1132 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:00 (rpc.ugidd)
root 155 0.0 0.0 1064 44 ? S Jun 11 0:14 /usr/sbin/scanlogd
root 161 0.1 0.1 1364 216 ? S Jun 11 21:36 /usr/sbin/syslogd
root 165 0.0 0.1 1356 168 ? S Jun 11 0:09 /usr/sbin/klogd -c 1
root 197 0.0 0.2 1644 380 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/rpc.mountd
root 199 0.0 0.3 1724 400 ? S Jun 11 2:17 /usr/sbin/rpc.nfsd
root 219 0.0 0.0 1332 68 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
root 229 0.0 0.0 1380 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:00 (lpd)
root 231 0.0 0.0 4620 60 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /e
root 245 0.0 0.2 2112 308 ? S Jun 11 0:00 sendmail: accepting c
root 256 0.0 0.0 1184 120 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/cron
root 260 0.0 0.0 1012 0 4 SW Jun 11 0:00 (mingetty)
root 261 0.0 0.0 1012 0 5 SW Jun 11 0:00 (mingetty)
root 262 0.0 0.0 1012 0 6 SW Jun 11 0:00 (mingetty)
root 265 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 266 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 267 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 268 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 269 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 270 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:01 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 271 0.0 0.3 1476 448 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/nscd
root 272 0.0 0.2 1800 268 ? S Jun 11 0:00 sh /usr/local/bin/ads
root 332 0.0 0.0 1596 0 1 SW Jun 11 0:00 (login)
root 1928 0.0 0.0 1596 0 2 SW Jun 11 0:00 (login)
root 11065 0.0 0.2 1596 364 3 S Jun 20 0:00 login -- david
root 24775 0.0 0.7 2212 1004 ? S 00:16 0:00 in.rlogind
root 24776 0.0 0.6 1632 860 ? S 00:16 0:00 login -- david
root 24963 0.0 0.5 1404 656 ? S 00:33 0:00 /usr/sbin/pppd pty /u
root 24964 0.0 0.3 1032 436 ? S 00:33 0:02 /usr/local/bin/pppoe
wwwrun 237 0.0 0.0 4692 0 ? SW Jun 11 0:00 (httpd)
wwwrun 238 0.0 0.7 4692 920 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /e
wwwrun 239 0.0 0.8 4692 1060 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /e
wwwrun 240 0.0 0.7 4692 920 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /e
wwwrun 241 0.0 0.0 4692 40 ? S Jun 11 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /e
wwwrun 17317 0.0 0.0 4692 0 ? SW Jun 13 0:00 (httpd)
wwwrun 17318 0.0 0.7 4692 920 ? S Jun 13 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /e
wwwrun 17319 0.0 0.0 4692 0 ? SW Jun 13 0:00 (httpd)
wwwrun 17320 0.0 0.0 4692 0 ? SW Jun 13 0:00 (httpd)
wwwrun 17321 0.0 0.0 4692 0 ? SW Jun 13 0:00 (httpd)
david@Interloper:> netstat
Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State
tcp 0 0 Interloper.david-s:nntp solo.david-steuber:1086 ESTABLISHED
tcp 0 124 Interloper.david-:login solo.david-steuber:1023 ESTABLISHED
Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
Proto RefCnt Flags Type State I-Node Path
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 262990 @000023ab
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 229293 @0000166e
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 263001 @000023ae
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 246165 @00001b3d
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 106 @00000002
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 101 @00000001
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 255149 @00002168
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 242682 @0000192d
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 262871 @000023a1
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 206 @00000006
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 198 @00000005
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 179 @00000004
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 124 @00000003
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 263002 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 262991 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 262872 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 255152 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 246166 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 242683 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 229296 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 207 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 199 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 180 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 125 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 107 /dev/log
unix 1 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 102 /dev/log
Something on solo is keeping the load average up. Whatever that
process is didn't go away with a full power down and boot up cycle.
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
All bits are significant. Some bits are more significant than others.
-- Charles Babbage Orwell
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: [JOB] Debian installer needed near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:00:09 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This employment offer that you present lacks credibility.
A few reasons for this opinion are:
You use of the term "peecee" for the common computer term "PC" (Personal
Computer) this may be the result of lack of experince in the computer field,
OR you are attempting to present yourself as different persona then your
true identity.
There is a Hollywood, Florida near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, your wording of
the locations makes it seem as though you are trying to appear less familiar
with the area than you in fact may be.
Then there is the ISP factor. Someone with a less than critical eye may
read your offer and think that you are located in Florida. However, I
believe you are located in the New York state in or near New York City.
Your email address is from Netmonger Communications, which is a small ISP
based in Bellmore NewYork. Netmonger Communications is so small or starved
for resources that it not able to provide a second authortive DNS server on
its own hosts. It's second authoritive DNS server is a DNS server run on a
host of Telecon Communications/Superior Net. Telecon Communications/Superior
Net is another ISP based in New York, in this case Johnstown New York.
However, you didn't connect to the internet through either of those ISP's.
Your connection was established through a third ISP located in New York
City, by the name of PANIX Public Access Networks Corporation. This ISP has
local dialup numbers for New York City, some other areas in New York outside
of New York City, and some area of New Jersey as well.
Your offer specifies Debian for your Linux distribution, you have
crossposted your offer into three Linux newsgroups but into none of the
debian specific newsgroups. Also since you are seeking professional and/or
expert support, there are newsgroups where you can advertise for the
services of computer consultants, you also did not crosspost into those
newsgroups either.
There is one more thing that can cause someone to doubt your offer's
credibility. This offer of yours is the only usenet newsgroup posting you
have made to date with this identity. This makes it appear that you may
have just created this on-line identity of [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the purpose
to make this one offer, perhaps for some ulterior motive.
These are some of the reasons that I find your offer to not be credible.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:8j4e4c$q2k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> We have need of a person who can install Debian on an IBM Aptiva peecee.
> This is a one shot install. The peecee is in a place called something
like
> "Hollywood", which is near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Old News Reader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "G Pollack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: WordPerfect 8: icons mangled
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:17:22 GMT
I've installed WP8.0, personal (free) version. Both during installation,
and when running the program after installation, the graphic icons are
garbled and illegible. This is true both with the version of WP that comes
with Mandrake 6.5, and with the version downloaded from Corel. My
system: Mandrake 7.1, gnome 1.2, sawfish.
Thanks for any help,
G. Pollack
------------------------------
From: Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: formating a drive under linux :\
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:21:12 GMT
"HellNo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
In a message on Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:01:18 -0700, wrote :
"> Well, maybe you can help me some more.
">
"> I started a telnet session to the machine where I added the drives. logged
"> in as root and ran the command:
">
"> [root@mi5 /root]# mke2fs -cv /dev/sdc1
"> mke2fs 1.15, 18-Jul-1999 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
"> Filesystem label=
"> OS type: Linux
"> Block size=4096 (log=2)
"> Fragment size=4096 (log=2)
"> 89088 inodes, 178172 blocks
"> 8908 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user
"> First data block=0
"> 6 block groups
"> 32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group
"> 14848 inodes per group
"> Superblock backups stored on blocks:
"> 32768, 98304, 163840
">
"> Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -s /dev/sdc1 178172
"> Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): 148096/ 178172
">
"> at block 148096 the telnet session locks. I went over to the server and
"> checked the monitor and saw the following error:
"> "
"> aha1542.c: Trying device reset for target 3
"> Sent BUS reset to scsi host 0
"> Kernel panic: scsi_free: Trying to free unused memory
"> "
"> Any info yet again would greatly be apreciated ;)
"> thx
"> PS: Same problem on both drives. Never used them so it could be bad blocks
"> on both but i doubt it.
How is your SCSI bus terminated? The *last* (and only the last) drive
should be terminated. The interface card should alse be terminated,
unless you have internal and external devices attached (modern
interface cards can be set to 'automatic termination', in which case
the card figures out if it needs termination on its own).
Otherwise you could have bad drives. Also: make sure you did not set
the partition size to be larger than the physical disk (check with
'fdisk -l').
">
">
">
">
"> "Martin Herrman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
"> news:39561256$0$27593@reader4...
"> > On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:02:00 -0700, HellNo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"> > > Hi all,
"> > >
"> > > A simple question really. I added a couple of 1GB SCSI disks to my
"> i586. I
"> > > ran an fdisk on both drives and added them to the /etc/fstab but I think
"> I
"> > > should format them at one time or the other... the ting is, what the
"> hell is
"> > > the command I should use t format an ext2 partition?
"> > >
"> > > Any help would be greatly apreciated :)
"> > > thx
"> >
"> > 'man mke2fs'
"> >
"> > HTH ;-)
"> >
"> > Martin
"> >
"> > >
"> > >
"> >
"> >
"> > --
"> > Linux Gebruikers Handleiding v1.2 : http://2mypage.cjb.net
"> > Linux RedHat 6.1 Kernel 2.2.14 Toshiba P233 MHz, 32 Mb RAM
"> > 4:00pm up 13 days, 6:59, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.05, 0.00
"> > Western Civilization, that would be a good idea!
">
">
">
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
------------------------------
From: "Dave Schanen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Sun Sparc faster then intel pentium: is this true????
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:30:39 -0500
> The term processor battle was previously used in this thread. I'm
> curious, since you think benchmarks are bogus just how you would
> like to rate performance then? If not with benchmarks, how? Even
> Sun uses benchmarks in their brochures.
>
> When I say that I've seen the benchmarks I'm talking about Sun's
> own numbers. What is the point of them doing benchmarks if they
> are bogus? Sun used many benchmarks in their sales pitch for
> many years. It is only now, when they aren't as high up the ladder
> as they used to be that they don't want to talk about benchmarks.
They still have the spec results on their pages, so I don't know what this
'they don't talk about it' business is. I wouldn't go so far as to say they
lost, more that they never showed up to the match. All we have on the spec
2000 page is a lone ultra 10 333. Sun is having problems of some sort on
the manufacturing end, and the ultrasparc III's were supposed to arrive long
ago. Not to long ago they couldn't fill a lot of their orders and lost out
at contract at the school I was going to, for a server to Hewlett Packard
of all companies. Maybe this was just a Wisconsin problem? I think despite
all their problems they still have the best overall systems and intel's
lines are just too bogged down by a bloated operating system.
>
> As to mmx, superpipelining, L1 caching, etc.; it just doesn't
> matter if it gets the job done now does it? There is a lot more
> to processing than merely instructions per second too. CPU speed
> (Mhz) isn't neccessarily a factor of throughput either. The
> Motorola 6809 is an example of this. While a 68B09 is running
> at 2 Mhz it is faster than an 8088 at 5 Mhz in throughput. This
> due to time slicing. The 8088 and the 6809 are similar chips in
> age and both are 8 bit external, 16 bit internal chips.
You know quite a lot about the motorola line, whats up with that? I have
nothing against intel and amd's superpipeling techniques per se but it does
seem to be a pretty inefficent way to make microprocessors. Just think if
all intel's resources went towards a chip that took adavantage of the latest
in electronic design rather than improving an ancient chip design.
>
> As to the Alphas, I thought we were talking about Suns here, not
> DECs. Still, since you brought it up, is this a conspiracy? Is
> Compaq hand in glove with Intel? Do they not answer to their
> stockholders? Wouldn't it make sense for them to produce the
> fastest Alpha possible if it is cost effective?
There is *something* stinking at compaq. Being a corporation it's probably
a combination of factors, rather than a conspiracy I think you'd agree, but
it appears they are trying to kill the alpha line completely. Every other
chip out there is using a .18 micron process on the their chips why is
Compaq using a .25 on all the alphas I see? Before they bought out DEC I
saw gigahertz chips for sale, and now all I see is 700's. I think this is
probably a combination of MS pushing for them to put their support behind
intel's line and decreased sales due the rate that intel and amd are pushing
out faster chips for dirt cheap. I still think it's fishy that the alphas
on the list are 600 mhz when in just '99 I saw gigahertz chips for sale on
the open market and this is spec 2000.
> Oh come on now. This is just stupid. 3 years is the norm for Intel
> systems? I have a Tandy 1000 that stills runs fine, a Tandy 2000
> that runs just fine, several '386 systems that run fine, many '486
> systems that run fine. All of these are over three years old. In
> fact I've only had one Intel based system die on me and I have a
> Sun 3/160 sitting in the garage that is dead. Given the age and
> quantity of machines that I own I'd say that from personal experience
> that Suns aren't as reliable as the Intel machines >BUT< I know that
> this isn't true. If you look at my numbers though it would seem
> that way.
The machines produced in the eighties for intel chips were more durable than
the those produced in the pentium era, I have TL 1000 still works too, my
pentium 100 doesn't. It's definately getting worse too, now if you don't
want an aluminum case you need to really search, not to say sun cases are
any better, but intel is really the reason everyone had to get new cases
when atx arrived.
<lots of stuff snipped>
> >A typo, what I meant to point out is that a workgroup with an enterprise
> >server and a dozen or so sunrays is mucho cheaper than a dozen intel
> >machines on desktops running offiice. At less than 400 bucks a pop for
a
> >sunray and at least 1500 for a desktop pc running office 2000 a sunray
> >cluster is a considerably better deal in a workgroup. StarOffice is
> >becoming more client/server in upcoming versions, but with X windows
> >seperation of client and server sides of it's functionallity it's more
than
> >possible to run the processor intensive end of office applications on the
> >server while someone uses it on the sunray end.
>
> Um, let's see here, we are now talking about Dells on the desktop that
> cost $1500? Why would I want those just to run Office 2000? Even if
> we stay with Dell their low end desktop PC's (which can run Office 2000
> quite well) cost less than $800.00 and their Servers run from $4000.00
> to $10,000.00. I personally would opt for Book PC on the desktop with
> a 400 Mhz Celeron CPU and a good 15" monitor. Fully configured with
> OS, peripherals, etc. about $550.00. Take your choice of server. We
> won't talk about application software prices.
>
> Now tell me again, where is the savings? How much is the Enterprise
> server going to cost? How is it going to compare in performance to
> 12 Computers running Office off of their own hard drives opposed to
> the Sunrays? Just curious.
12 sunrays probably wouldn't require and enterprise server as they sell
E250's with sunrays in packs of 50. I've never run a sunray network, so I
couldn't even guess at what 12 would require, a ultra 5 with scsi drives
maybe? I would really dispute what office 2000 requires though, a sub 1000
pc isn't going to cut it, and office 2000 + win 2000 is going to run you 300
alone (yeah I know, we won't talk application prices, but StarOffice is
free).
> And Microsoft has support for outdated OS's too. Big deal. You talked
> about legacy support. I pointed out that Sun doesn't support their
> platforms beyond a reasonable period either in new releases. As a
> matter of fact, Microsoft has provided plenty of legacy support, to
> a point of being ridiculous. DOS up to and including 6.22 supported
> the 8088. Windows 95 supported the '386. It wasn't practical to
> run it on a '386 but it was supported. Win 98 runs on a P-75. Again,
> kind of useless. Much like running Solaris 7 on a Sun Sparc 1. It
> will run but it is slow. Just too make sure, son of a gun! They
> still have patches, etc. for MS-DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.0 there.
Point taken about Microsoft supporting outdated systems, I'm just bitter
that win2k runs so slow and occupy's 600 megs. There is no reason for it to
be that way, this is definately bad programming or simply bad design (or
maybe good design, hmm).
Dave
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J Bland)
Subject: Re: Who is loading the system and why?
Date: 25 Jun 2000 17:26:31 GMT
>' What is most probably causing it is an IO process of some sort; a big ftp
>' job, copying lots of files, that sort of thing, which doesn't use much cpu
>' but hammers the various IO devices.
>
>The disk is quiet. The network is quiet.
>
Tracking down stuff like this can be a bit of a bugger. I know someone's
machine that sometimes gets LAs of 5 or more while doing nothing, simply
because her nfsed laptop has been taken off the network.
LA 1 means average of 1 process, whatever is on there may not be doing
anything more than waiting for IO to come in that never does.
Can't think of anything clever to try, so shutdown your X and WM, drop to a
virtual console. Check LA. If it's still up, start stopping/killing
non-essential processes until you find the one that's causing it. Once we
know which one it is it may be something trivial.
Frinky
------------------------------
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