Linux-Misc Digest #347, Volume #25 Fri, 4 Aug 00 22:13:02 EDT
Contents:
boot message errors (Ron Nicholls)
Re: detecting my ethernet card? (Grant Edwards)
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (John Hasler)
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (John Hasler)
Re: Can't kill mt (Ron Nicholls)
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (Christopher Browne)
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (Christopher Browne)
Re: How do I <4dos>ren *.htm *.html</4dos> in bash? (Scott Alfter)
Re: the psychology of linux and the hacker ethos (Mary P)
Help with .gz files and other downloaded stuff (Shocky)
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (Zebee Johnstone)
Re: Help with .gz files and other downloaded stuff (Albert Wagner)
Re: rsh and password (brian moore)
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (Christopher Browne)
Can't Install StarOffice5.2 (root)
Re: the psychology of linux and the hacker ethos (Chuck)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ron Nicholls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: boot message errors
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 20:58:26 -1000
Two extracts from dmesg
mtrr: v1.35a (19990819) Richard Gooch ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb360
PCI: Using configuration type 1
PCI: Probing PCI hardware
PCI: 00:3b [1106/3040/000604] has unknown header type 00, ignoring.
PCI: 00:38 [1106/0586]: Work around ISA DMA hangs (00)
VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xe400-0xe407, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xe408-0xe40f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA
hda: ST320420A, ATA DISK drive
hdb: LS-120 CSMO 05 UHD Floppy, ATAPI FLOPPY drive
Can anyone explain the meaning of the two boot message errors and how to
correct them.
--
-
-
Regards RonN
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: detecting my ethernet card?
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 01:15:45 GMT
On 4 Aug 2000 23:56:42 GMT, Peter Bismuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Are there any linux tools for detecting an ethernet card after installation?
>Netconf perhaps?
If it's PCI you can use the lspci program to detect the card.
If it's ISA, there is no reliable, automated way to detect it.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Sorry, wrong ZIP
at CODE!!
visi.com
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:22:04 GMT
Zebee Johnstone writes:
> Does tax deductability work differently in the US?
No, but the "they'll just take it off their taxes" myth is widespread among
the less well educated.
I once accused this blowfish person of being John Dyson. I apologize: that
was an insult to John. I think he just might be Ray Lopez, though.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:13:09 GMT
blowfish writes:
> You see. Business software is part of the business expenses, so, they're
> tax deductable.
> The money has got to go, either to the software companies, or to the tax
> collectors.
You know even less about accounting then you do about copyright, and you
have clearly never operated a business.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
------------------------------
From: Ron Nicholls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't kill mt
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 11:23:04 -1000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I am having a weird problem with mt. Sometime we have problems running
> mt erase on tapes. No big deal. However, I cannot kill mt to retry.
> Once one backup has a problem we have to completely reboot to kill mt.
Have you tried using kill with the programs PID No.
--
-
-
Regards RonN
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 01:24:21 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Johan Kullstam would say:
>John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Phillip Lord writes:
>> > The separation of the "government" and the "economy" is strange
>> > though.
>>
>> It's conventional.
>
>by whos convention? macro-economics, keynes &c are all about how
>linked government and economy are. you may be of the monetarist
>religion, but keynesian economics is hardly uncoventional.
It is not "unconventional" to have governement _activity_ separated
from other _activities_ when doing economic analysis, but that is
pretty different from trying to separate "government" from "economy."
>> > The government effects the economy enormously by the simple act of being
>> > there and spending as much cash as it does, and the economy massively
>> > effects the government and what it can do.
>>
>> Nonetheless, treating the economy and the government as seperate
>> systems is a useful approximation,
>
>and i think it's a completely worthless approximation.
>
>> "Everything is part of everything else" holism is
>> not practical.
>
>they don't call it the dismal science for nothing.
Treating them as being utterly independent when they _do_ affect one
another seems to me to be not terribly sensible.
It may be reasonable to try to find what portions of economic activity
come from the government, and what are attributable to other things.
Mind you, there are some not-outrageous arguments out there to the
effect that the attempts to account for the total size of "The
Economy" represent silliness at best, and may be worse than that.
After the Mindcraft "benchmarketing" activities, as well as 20-odd
years of computer system "benchmarking," it should be pretty clear
that there is no reasonable single measure of how "big" a computer
system is.
A logical extension of that is that in the vastly greater complexity
of a nation's economy, why is it reasonable to expect that we can
attach some particular value to the "Gross National Product?"
Government departments exist for the express purpose of trying to
evaluate that thing, and there is a considerable body of professional
economists with a fair bit at stake in having jobs analyzing the
GNP.
On the other hand, the often-maligned Lord Keynes was not simply a
recipient of government sinecure; he used his "powers of economic
insight" to attain personal riches in the stock market.
It is pretty typical for people to criticize what they regard as "his
ideas" based on the pale stereotypes expressed by weak-kneed
governments over the years rather than on what he actually wrote. I
daresay that I _haven't_ yet read _The General Theory of Employment,
Interest, and Money_; it's on my to-do list.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
As Will Rogers would have said, "There is no such thing as a free
variable." -- Alan Perlis
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 01:24:31 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when blowfish would say:
>Christopher Browne wrote:
>> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when blowfish would say:
>> >Johan Kullstam wrote:
>> >> if you can't own it, you can't be stealing it right?
>> >>
>> >Here goes your twisted logic again...
>> >
>> >Okay. A just robbed a bank. Then you go and robbed A, took the money
>> >that A robbed from the bank.
>> >
>> >You didn't robbed the bank directly, but you're in process of the bank's
>> >money by robbing A.
>> >
>> >Does that makes you a lesser criminal??????????????
>>
>> Money is a construct for which ownership is pretty intrinsic.
>>
>> Its _essence_ is as an expression of owned value.
>>
>> Thus, any argument surrounding the notion of things that _cannot be
>> owned_ cannot be applied to money, at least not without taking _great_
>> care to form syllogisms to indicate the lack of ownership.
>
>How/Why money cannot be owned?
>
>If you've created something, anything, and people likes it, they pay you
>money for it, or for a copy of it. Then, you've *EARNED* that money, and
>that money belongs to you. You have every legal title over that money.
>
>Or if your parents have earned the money, and passed it down to you,
>then, you have inherented the money bevause of your parents. Even if you
>didn't work for it yourself.
>
>That money is still yours. And you're the legal owner of that money.
I don't disagree with all that; the notion of being "owned" is pretty
intrinsic to money.
The point is that if the original premise concerned something that
_couldn't_ be owned, it is problematic to try to build analogies using
money, which _is_ owned.
>> Putting that another way, if A robs a bank, then A has taken some
>> form of property that is _owned_.
>>
>Wrong again. The bank NEVER OWNED the money. The money is owned by
>depositors, and leave it their under "TRUSTS". And allowing the bank to
>invest the deposited money, but give some interests back to those who
>deposited the money as a reward/return, and promise try to keep their
>money safe.
Wrong about what? I never said _who_ owned the money. It could be
owned by the bank. Or by depositors. Or by the bank's owners.
That's not of any importance to the point, which was that if money is
stolen from the bank, something _owned_ has been taken. The question
of who owns it is not particularly relevant; the point is that it
happens to be owned by _someone_, which means that the example doesn't
relate to the original contention about:
"if you can't own it, you can't be stealing it right?"
So far, you're doing a real good job of showing that you can't stay on
track. You keep changing subjects, and not addressing the original
claim, which is that:
"if you can't own it, you can't be stealing it right?"
If you are interested in a debate, then debate that statement. Don't
change topics to "robbing banks" which doesn't relate in any useful
way.
>> That is completely incompatible with the thesis being explored which
>> is that that some computer software may be expressly _not ownable_.
>> [Further down the road lies the thesis that "intellectual property" is an
>> intellectual _sham_ using the argument that ideas are _not_ property...]
>>
>> Something that is not owned cannot be "stolen," and thus there can be no
>> "robbery," and hence the notion of associating criminal action with thus
>> makes no sense at all. It's not owned, wasn't stolen, and thus there
>> is no "criminal."
>
>Here you're trying to go around circles again.
>
>> Grump however you like about how "you weren't talking about that,"
>> but you _were_ responding to the line:
>> "if you can't own it, you can't be stealing it right?"
>>
>> Two directions appear _reasonable_ in constructing a coherent debate
>> to the thesis:
>> a) You could claim that the notion that "you can't own it" is
>> nonsense, and that the "can't be stealing part" thus has nothing
>> to follow.
>>
>> But you never said anything about that.
>>
>> b) The alternative is to say "OK, fine, you can't own it. But
>> that _doesn't_ lead to stealing being impossible."
>>
>> Instead, you ignored both the initial premise ("can't own it") _and_ the
>> claimed result ("can't possibly steal it"), and made up some alternative
>> thesis indicating that this is all just like saying that it's not criminal
>> to rob banks. That's nonsense.
>
>Yes, ideas are being stolen all the time, and nothing can really be done
>about it.
That begs the question of whether ideas are ownable property. If they
are, then they may be "stolen." If they aren't ownable, then they
_can't_ be stolen.
>But, when the idea has became a tangible item, like written down as a
>piece of software, a music score, or something that you can actually
>sell to an audience, then, that idea has an owner. - The person who has
>created it out from thin air.
>
>Your kinds of ideas about *free are all donky dungs.
The term "free" hasn't come up so far; the debate hasn't reached any
point where any meaning of the word "free" would be of any relevance.
Your bringing it up at this point is "donky dungs."
>> >> > Wake up. You've just sold yourself for the price of a free beer.
>> >>
>> >> i have? what have i done? all i've said is:
>> >>
>> >> 1) copyright and patents are mercanitilism. this is by definition.
>> >> 2) copyright and patents require active and intrusive enforcement by
>> >> government. this is obvious by observation.
>> >>
>> >> do these statements somehow threaten your worldview?
>> >>
>> >No. But reality sure busted a lot of rainbow dreams by bubble heads.
>>
>> Don't blowfish have pretty bubbly heads?
>>
>> You may _think_ you're arguing well, but it's rather more like Ratbert
>> wearing an "external brain pack" (aka piece of liver around his waist),
>> and then debating using lines like "I must be right - this brain pack
>> has a degree from Harvard."
>
>Don't put words into my mouth. I never said I argue well.
>
>But I started to wonder why I'm wasting my time on loonies!?
You're claiming to try to debate, but your best arguments seem to come
down to saying things like:
"Your kinds of ideas about *free are all donky dungs."
It seems to me that you are indeed wasting your time.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
"People are more vocally opposed to fur than leather because it's
easier to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." [bumper sticker]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Alfter)
Subject: Re: How do I <4dos>ren *.htm *.html</4dos> in bash?
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 01:29:50 GMT
In article <8mdk3s$2kk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Wind*z* having done the dirty on me just one time too many, I am
>switching over to Linux. I had been developing a Web site, now several
>hundred pages long, all with extension *.htm on my hard disk, but
>*.html on the host (likewise the hrefs are to *.html). Having copied
>them onto my Linux partition, I cannot figure out how to rename them all
>to *.html in one go. I did man mv, apropos rename, etc.
It's simple, and you don't need a shell script. Once you're in your
website's root directory, do this in bash (enter as one line):
for i in `find . -name "*.htm"`; do mv $i $i"l"; sed "s/.htm/.html/g"
$i"l" >tmpfile; mv tmpfile $i"l"; done
This will rename the files and change the links within the files to match.
_/_
/ v \
(IIGS( Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull number for email address)
\_^_/ http://salfter.dyndns.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mary P)
Subject: Re: the psychology of linux and the hacker ethos
Date: 5 Aug 2000 01:30:26 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 4 Aug 2000 16:47:35 GMT, brian moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:18:29 -0700,
> D. C. & M. V. Sessions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> shawn wrote:
(one of you wrote this:)
>> What the (Free|Opensource) world needs as much as programmers is
>> * Writers. Especially writers. Really, really, REALLY especially
>> writers who are totally new to Linux and open software and can see
>> it with new eyes AND KEEP NOTES ON WHAT THEY LEARN. Document your
>> discovery of Linux. Read the HOWTOS (which are barely tolerable),
>> grok their inadequacy, AND FIX IT.
>>
>> Boy, howdy, do we need people who can write about Linux from the new
>> user's point of view.
How can I help? I'm relatively new. I'm systematic, keep great
notes. I read everything. I am willing to try stuff. And I can
even write! I spent several years as an editor for academic
publications, in fact.
I'm sure there are more people like me out there. Give us some
leads on how we can participate, please.
MP
_
. .
V
// \\
// \\
(W W)
------------------------------
From: Shocky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Help with .gz files and other downloaded stuff
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 01:30:02 GMT
May i know what are .gz files and how do i run them? Why is it that when
i click on a folder i've downloaded they give an error? In downloads.com,
when i try to download some files, the links lead me to another page full
of words - is anything wrong? If not, what should i do to the downloaded
text?
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zebee Johnstone)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Date: 5 Aug 2000 01:16:56 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In comp.os.linux.setup on Fri, 04 Aug 2000 17:17:24 -0700
blowfish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>> Here, you deduct it from your taxable income, not the tax you pay.
>>
>So. If you can deduct it from your taxable income, you're than paying
>less tax. Isn't it? Mate!?
>
Which isn't what you said. You said that the money went either to the
software company or the taxman.
Clearly only half (at a marginal rate of 50%) goes to the taxman.
And if company tax is lower - in some places it may be as low as 30% -
then the reward for buying and tax-deducting is not attractive.
BIg companies have been pirating for years. I've worked for several
and a lot of software was dodgy. Wasn't until FASA started getting
real aggro and knocking off people like MLC Insurance that they
tightened up.
However, small business and home users are not peanuts in the software
world. If they were, places like OfficeWorks wouldn't be selling
software.
Zebee
------------------------------
From: Albert Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help with .gz files and other downloaded stuff
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:00:56 -0600
Shocky wrote:
>
> May i know what are .gz files and how do i run them? Why is it that when
> i click on a folder i've downloaded they give an error? In downloads.com,
> when i try to download some files, the links lead me to another page full
> of words - is anything wrong? If not, what should i do to the downloaded
> text?
>
I assume you are running Linux. .tgz stands for tarred and zipped. It
must be uncompressed with something like GNU tar. Typically, tgz files
contain source code that must be compiled, but sometimes it also
contains binaries. The process of setting up a development environment
with the necessary libraries, compiling and installing cannot be
answered in simple email. If you are running windows than you are on
the wrong newsgroup.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: rsh and password
Date: 5 Aug 2000 01:55:49 GMT
On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 00:00:06 GMT,
David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore) writes:
>
> ' > Aug 4 05:16:46 apostrophe modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10
> ' > Aug 4 05:16:46 apostrophe sshd[26440]: Server listening on 0.0.0.0 port 22.
> ' > Aug 4 05:16:46 apostrophe sshd[26440]: Generating 768 bit RSA key.
> ' > Aug 4 05:16:46 apostrophe sshd[26440]: RSA key generation complete.
> ' > Aug 4 05:17:05 apostrophe inetd[26443]: execv /usr/local/sbin/sshd2: No such
>file or directory
> ' > Aug 4 05:17:11 apostrophe inetd[26444]: execv /usr/local/sbin/sshd2: No such
>file or directory
> ' >
> ' > I really appreciate the help given so far. I see an alarm bell in the
> ' > first line of /var/log/messages about the modprobe. This seems like
> ' > it might be important. Do I need to rebuild my kernel to support this
> ' > module? If so, where in menuconfig can I find it so that I may add
> ' > it? What about /usr/local/sbin/sshd2? Why didn't make install
> ' > install it? Should it be a symbolic link to /usr/local/sbin/sshd?
> '
> ' That module is for IP6. You don't need it.
> '
> ' Why is inetd trying to spawn sshd2? You don't want to do that. (sshd
> ' generates a bunch of random numbers for a key on startup, and that can
> ' take a while depending on the entropy pool of your machine... you don't
> ' want to do that with every session.)
>
> Son of a bitch!!!!
>
> It looks like I forgot to kill -HUP /usr/sbin/inetd when I removed
> ssh2 (non free) from it. Here is my new login attempt:
Cool. :)
> david@solo:> ssh apostrophe -v
> SSH Version OpenSSH_2.1.1, protocol versions 1.5/2.0.
> Compiled with SSL (0x0090581f).
> debug: Reading configuration data /usr/local/etc/ssh_config
> debug: Applying options for *
> debug: Seeding random number generator
> debug: ssh_connect: getuid 500 geteuid 0 anon 0
> debug: Connecting to apostrophe.david-steuber.com [::ffff:10.7.7.11] port 22.
> rresvport: af=10 Invalid argument
> debug: Connecting to apostrophe.david-steuber.com [10.7.7.11] port 22.
> debug: Seeding random number generator
> debug: Allocated local port 636.
> debug: Connection established.
> debug: Remote protocol version 1.99, remote software version OpenSSH_2.1.1
> debug: Local version string SSH-1.5-OpenSSH_2.1.1
> debug: Waiting for server public key.
> debug: Received server public key (768 bits) and host key (1024 bits).
> The authenticity of host 'apostrophe.david-steuber.com' can't be established.
> RSA key fingerprint is 8f:42:c9:bd:a9:ef:8f:09:98:ed:b8:a4:fb:32:ff:6b.
> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes
> Warning: Permanently added 'apostrophe.david-steuber.com,10.7.7.11' (RSA) to the
>list of known hosts.
> debug: Seeding random number generator
> debug: Encryption type: 3des
> debug: Sent encrypted session key.
> debug: Installing crc compensation attack detector.
> debug: Received encrypted confirmation.
> debug: Doing password authentication.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s password:
> debug: Requesting pty.
> debug: Requesting shell.
> debug: Entering interactive session.
> Last login: Tue Aug 1 22:06:19 2000 from solo.david-steuber.com
> Have a lot of fun...
> david@apostrophe:~ >
>
> Does this look right to you for a first time login?
Yep. You even figured out that you have to type 'yes', not just 'y' on
the question... :)
> I've got a shell. That is a big start. I can su to root. This is
> good. Very good. Now, how do I do the following:
>
> 1) copy files from one machine to another (apostrophe will be moved to
> another physical location and be on another network)
scp filename.foo remote:filename.com
(assuming the username's match, of course... use 'foo@remote:filename'
if they don't... and, yes, you can copy the other way, too.)
If you're doing a lot of copying, you may want to use rsync.
> 2) run X applications on apostrophe with their display showing up on
> my terminal
ssh -X remote -- to open a shell up, auto-handling the X forwarding
(ie, you shouldn't have to mess with DISPLAY or
anything)
Also note that ssh replaces not just telnet/rlogin (as above) but also
rsh:
ssh -X -n remote netscape & -- will run netscape on the remote system,
(tunneling X back, encrypted)
> I just noticed I'm using protocol 1.99. I want to use protocol 2.0.
You have it. :)
The 1.99 stuff is the same as 2.0. (No idea -why- they do that, there
aren't any comments in the code around that point.)
> I've run ssh-keygen, so I should have the right keys in the right
> places. I probably have to tweak /usr/local/etc/ssh_config on solo
> and /usr/local/etc/sshd_config on apostrophe.
Could be. If you're paranoid like me and have passwords on the keys,
the way to make your life easy is to run 'ssh-agent'. ssh-agent will
pass some information its children on you identity.
The usual way to run it is as part of your X startup, so that ssh-agent
spawns your window manager or your .xsession/.xinitrc as is proper for
your case. In your .xsession/.xinitrc, insert 'ssh-agent' at thet start
of the line invoking your window manager. (Debian's ssh install does
this automatically as part of the system Xsession.)
Then, with ssh-askpass, you can 'unlock' your passworded key:
ssh-askpass will pass this back to ssh-agent, which will make it
available to other children... so you can give your password just once
and it will remember it until you end your X session.
> Once I have those things working, I should have full, secure, remote
> control of that machine.
>
> Thanks a bunch so far.
No prob.
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 01:59:07 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when blowfish would say:
>Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>> In comp.os.linux.setup on Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:54:24 -0700
>> blowfish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >The arguement of costs is not important at all.
>> >
>> >At least for any real businesses.
>> >
>> >You see. Business software is part of the business expenses, so, they're
>> >tax deductable.
>> >
>> >The money has got to go, either to the software companies, or to the tax
>> >collectors.
>> >
>> >So. Tell me where's the *real* saving!!!???
>> >
>>
>> Does tax deductability work differently in the US?
>>
>I don't know. I'll have to ask my cousin in Australia.
>
>> Here, you deduct it from your taxable income, not the tax you pay.
>>
>So. If you can deduct it from your taxable income, you're than paying
>less tax. Isn't it? Mate!?
If the corporate tax rate is 30%, then for every dollar spent on
expenses, you get to deduct $0.30 from the tax bill.
That means that while there is a tax "benefit," you're still behind
by $0.70 on the dollar, or, in other words, are sitting on a net
loss of money.
I used to do tax work (in Canada; higher rates, not ludicrously different
principles), and was fairly amazed at the number of doctors that
were quite happy to throw their money away on frivolous "tax shelter"
investments. I think they felt happy about it because they got to keep
from paying the government a bunch of money. It was nonetheless quite
irrational from an economic standpoint since for them to save $10,000 on
their tax bill, they had to throw $20,000 into the "toilet" of "stupid
tax shelter."
You seem to be suffering from the same delusion, namely that it's always
good to diminish your tax bill. That's downright _false_; the more
rational thing to do is to _maximize your net cash flows._ Paying an
extra $50,000 in taxes is a _wonderful_ thing so long as you're receiving
an amount significantly _more_ than $50,000. I'd rather like to have
an income tax bill next year of $100,000; that would imply that I had
a whopping lot more income than I had this year.
>> So at best you save the tax that would be paid on the amount, not the
>> amount.
>>
>> The costs must count, else who would bother pirating? And plenty of
>> businesses *do* pirate, ask any of the vendor's associations.
>>
>To a certain extend. Yes.
>
>For private end users, and very small shops, probably.
>
>But for medium size and up biz. Not really. A few thousands, or even a
>million or two,
>might just be the amount that they put in the monthly petty cash.
... And this betrays the _other_ misunderstanding of how people
actually attain wealth. Moving from "rags" to "riches" comes, in
great part, from careful attention to detail, which includes paying
attention to those "few thousands" of dollars.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic...
And I am too.
------------------------------
From: root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Can't Install StarOffice5.2
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:58:41 -0400
HI,
I have downloaded SO5.2 and followed the instructions to install it,
but when I do what the instructions say, all I get is bash command
not found. I read some additional information about using chmod
command.
Can someone point me in the right direction for step by step
installation of StarOfiice 5.2.
Thanks,
Ron
------------------------------
From: Chuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the psychology of linux and the hacker ethos
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 22:02:20 -0400
I am a Windows programmer by trade and an OLD Dos hacker. I miss the
days
when command line was the only way to do things(I know this is the year
2k).
I have recently gotten back into Linux. I think the last time I messed
with it was
around version 4.xx, I am very intrigued by the fact that I will need to
dive down
into the operating system to make things work the way I want them to.
IMHO Windows has become a system that anyone can make do what they
want it to
without very much effort, but if there is a serious problem they do not
understand
what is going on underneath so they cannot get underneath and fix it.
On the other
hand if a person is to make Linux do what they want to ALL of the time
it will be
necessary to get down inside it. I guess that is my driving force in
getting linux to
run on my systems. The short story is that once I get it all working the
way I want
it to I am ready to move on to something else. That is why I started
programming, until a program works the way I want it to I will remain
interested.
The moral: The prize is to help make this operating system NOT crash.
When it does
jump in there and fix it no matter how much time or
effort it takes
Chuck
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
