Thank you for the information Platonides. So, summarizing the events so far. There was a transfer to mailman 3 without consulting any local communities. Arguments like "a more modern look" and "convenience" were used. The upgrade came and the persons responsible for the upgrade did so without fully releasing that there might be downsides or negative side effects. When people come forward with issue's regarding the upgrade not understanding what the issue is, the response is, take it up with Hotmail, the issue surely can't be the mailman upgrade. Microsoft should fix their stuff and if not, it's your problem. After asking for better arguments, an even more vague and technocratic story is told. I feel like I'm calling an insurance company, sigh. Thanks to Platonides, I now at least have a grasp at what the issue is. But this entire migration leaves me pretty unsatisfied. Regards, Natuur12 On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 02:59:59 AM GMT+2, Risker <[email protected]> wrote: You might also want to consider adding the mailing list to your contacts for Hotmail. I have found this makes a big difference for Hotmail, even more than filters do.
Risker/Anne On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 at 20:16, Platonides <[email protected]> wrote: First, I doubt you would get someone to change the hotmail filters. It's not like they added a manual rule. It works on autopilot. The spamfilter learns that such message is bad. Not even the Microsoft guys really know how it decides that. And even if the ip address was blocked, the technicians would just be allowed to "mitigate" the ip, and are not allowed to deviate from the runbook. Second, the migration to mailman3 probably changed them enough so they "lost" a lot of the reputation it gained through the years. So if may have learnt that a message with certain wikimedia headers was ok, but mm3 emails are different enough they don't hit. Third, mailman is sending spam messages to the list owners. Those are requested, but they are being sent, so hotmail does have a point. Do not mark them as spam, even if it is a spam sent to <list>[email protected], you want to receive them, not to make hotmail learn that email sent by lists.wikimedia.org is spam. Mails blocked to the list and sent to the list owners are problematic (and spammy) enough that I think mailman should offern an option not to include the full email not passed to the list, but only the subject. But that'd be a feature request.In the end, if you are a list admin, you have requested to receive them, even if they are spammy. You should be able to configure your mail for that. However, you may be using a provider which doesn't allow that kind of flexibility. By the way, gmail is marking me the previous mails of this list from Leon Haanstra as: "This message was not sent to Spam because of a filter you created." (they are not always obeying these filters ☹, but I am glad they at least allow them). This may be related to gmail considering list mail flow more spammy than usual, or simply because it's a yahoo.com email address and thus it fails the silly DMARC policy they added. Regards _______________________________________________ Listadmins mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] To request technical changes for a specific list, please instead create a task in Phabricator. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _______________________________________________ Listadmins mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] To request technical changes for a specific list, please instead create a task in Phabricator. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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