On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>wrote:
> STEP? No clue what that means. > Well, I did not know what to call it and I wanted to have people propose a name without assuming that the "FINE" names would be candidates. Gary > > Gary, if you want to implement VERBOSE between INFO and DEBUG I’m OK with > that, but what will that map to in SLF4J, etc. DEBUG? > > And yes, something on the web site should document our recommended usage > for levels and markers. > > Ralph > > > > On Jan 18, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ah, my view of VERBOSE is that it is _more_ information, hence INFO < > VERBOSE < DEBUG; while it sounds like Ralphs sees it as more DEBUG data. > > For me DEBUG data is going to be already verbose, even more than 'verbose'. > > What is interesting (to me) is that DEBUG is often misused based on this > basic mix: debug messages can be for users *and/or* for developers, there > is no distinction in the audience. > > For example, as a user, I want to get data to help me debug my > configuration and my process. As a developer, I want to debug the code. > These can be two very different set of data. > > But we do not have DEBUG_USER and DEBUG_DEV levels. I would see INFO next > to VERBOSE as useful to users. Then DEBUG and TRACE useful for developers. > Each app can have its convention of course, but it would be nice to have > the distinction available through levels for developers to use. > > I see TRACE as method entry and exit type of logging, *very* *low* level > stuff. > > We could also have both (ducking for projectiles): > > INFO > VERBOSE > DEBUG > STEP > TRACE > > Gary > > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Ralph Goers > <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>wrote: > >> Oops. I just noticed you proposed that VERBOSE be between INFO and DEBUG. >> Now that I don’t understand. My experience is that VERBOSE is usually more >> detailed than debug messages, not less. >> >> Ralph >> >> On Jan 18, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> >> wrote: >> >> I understand the need for CONFIG. However it isn’t clear to me whether >> it belongs between INFO and WARN or DEBUG and INFO. That is because it >> typically would be used to log configuration during startup. That doesn’t >> necessarily imply that you would then want to see all INFO messages as >> well. Due to that, it would make more sense to me to make a CONFIG marker. >> >> I don’t really understand the point of FINE or FINER. >> >> On the other hand, VERBOSE does make a bit more sense, but I’m struggling >> with how that is any different than TRACE. I guess the idea is that TRACE >> is for control flow (entry, exit) and VERBOSE is for more detailed debug >> messages? I suppose I can go along with that argument, but again one could >> just as easily create a VERBOSE marker and attach it to either TRACE or >> DEBUG. I guess I wouldn’t object if VERBOSE was added as a Level but I’m >> not really convinced it is necessary either. >> >> Ralph >> >> >> >> On Jan 18, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I've always liked Ralph's argument that Markers give users much more >> flexibility than any predefined Levels. >> I would prefer to stick to the log4j/slf4j level names. >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Interesting, I have been wanting a VERBOSE level better INFO and DEBUG. >>> >>> See >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/logging-log4j-dev/201310.mbox/%3CCACZkXPxNwYbn__CbXUqFhC7e3Q=kee94j+udhe8+6jiubcz...@mail.gmail.com%3E >>> >>> You'll have to dig a little in that ref to find my proposal, sorry I'm >>> on my phone ATM. >>> >>> It sounds like we see logging configuration messages differently though. >>> I do not like the name CONFIG because it does not sound like a level to me. >>> Otoh, many command lines have a verbose AND a debug switch. So it makes >>> sense to me too have corresponding levels. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Nick Williams >>> Date:01/17/2014 23:50 (GMT-05:00) >>> To: Log4J Developers List >>> Subject: Web Issues, Logging Levels, and GA >>> >>> Wanted to update y'all. As you know, I've been very absent lately due to >>> the book consuming every minute of my free time. I know I haven't been >>> contributing my due, and for that please accept my sincerest apologies. The >>> book is finally done (goes on sale next month!) and I can get back to >>> regular life. I'm going to be out of town for the next week on a >>> much-needed vacation with very limited access to email. I'll be back the >>> weekend of January 25-26, and that weekend I will be spending almost the >>> entire time finally dealing with the 8-10 web application-related bugs. >>> After that, I don't see any encumbrances to releasing >>> 2.0.0.GA<http://2.0.0.ga/> >>> . >>> >>> Except... >>> >>> Logging Levels. We kinda-sorta talked about this a few months ago, and a >>> few months before that, and a few months before that, but we never actually >>> DID anything about it. It's clear by now that my "extendable enum" proposal >>> (that would be a drop-in replacement for and binary compatible with the >>> current Level enum) is not going to be accepted. Absent any other >>> proposals, I suggest we add the following new levels before GA: >>> >>> CONFIG - Between INFO and WARN, mapped to INFO for bridges to other >>> frameworks that don't have an equivalent level >>> >>> FINE - Between DEBUG and TRACE, mapped to TRACE for bridges to other >>> frameworks that don't have an equivalent level >>> >>> I'll let y'all chat about that over the next week. ;-) >>> >>> Be back soon, >>> >>> Nick >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: log4j-dev-unsubscr...@logging.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: log4j-dev-h...@logging.apache.org >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second > Edition<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > > > -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
