And if we cannot fix it, we should remove Serializable from AbstractLogger.
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: > If that's the case, we should reopen > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-801 > > > On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> But realistically it may not be easy to spin up a background thread etc >> on deserialization. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 2016/07/26, at 20:08, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >> wrote: >> >> It seems like this should be the case already: >> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-801 >> >> What about AsyncLogger though? >> >> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Mikael Ståldal < >> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >> >>> That deserialized loggers work (given that all needed dependencies are >>> on classpath) is a reasonable expectation. If we cannot guarantee that, >>> then we should not declare that loggers are serializable. >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sure. What is the expectation here? >>>> Do deserialized Loggers work? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2016/07/26, at 17:26, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Can we at least document that we guarantee that Loggers from >>>> log4j-impl are always serializable? >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2016/07/26, at 1:43, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The purpose is that the user of Log4j can be sure that the Logger is >>>>> serializable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If that is a consideration, the user can select an implementation that >>>>> is fit for purpose. >>>>> >>>>> I generally prefer not to make too many guarantees in an interface to >>>>> give implementations more flexibility. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> But to what purpose? Does Log4j itself need this? Is this a case of >>>>>> YAGNI? >>>>>> >>>>>> If I have a Logger in an object I serialize, and the class >>>>>> implementing Logger is serializable, then I am good to go. >>>>>> >>>>>> Making Logger Serializable, would make this obvious to users and >>>>>> might make some developers warm and fuzzy. It just seems like an odd >>>>>> requirement for ALL implementors of Loggers to be serializable. As a >>>>>> third >>>>>> party Logger implementor, that does not mean it would be done properly. >>>>>> Implementing the interface is no guarantee of proper behavior. >>>>>> >>>>>> Overall, it seems like it would make Log4j less friendly to 3rd party >>>>>> implementors. Are there even any? >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> But maybe we actually want to force all implementations to be >>>>>>> serializable? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the theory is it is preferable to let implementors of an >>>>>>>> interface implement java.io.Serializable instead of letting the >>>>>>>> interface >>>>>>>> extend java.io.Serializable. That gives future implementors the >>>>>>>> freedom to >>>>>>>> choose to either implement Serializable or not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It seems like serializable logger is useful in Apache Spark, which >>>>>>>>> is popular to use from Scala. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Do Scala programmers use Serializable a lot, or is there a better >>>>>>>>>> mechanism there? Because if there's a more Scala way of doing it, >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> would make more sense. Otherwise, you can always add Serializable >>>>>>>>>> later, >>>>>>>>>> but you shouldn't remove it once it's part of the public API. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 25 July 2016 at 03:06, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am asking this since I'm considering making the Scala Logger >>>>>>>>>>> wrapper Serializable. Would that be a good idea? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Users can rely on the fact that loggers are always >>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we could also document that fact if we don't want to >>>>>>>>>>>> mark the interface Serializable. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What advantage is gained by declaring the interface >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should limit ourselves to what we add to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> API just for the sake of alternative implementations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think you want to _force_ all implementation to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable. Serialization is not a main feature of loggers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logging is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But if this is a feature that is useful for some users, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not fully advertise it by making the Logger interface >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Matt Sicker < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's Serializable because there was a feature request for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. The jira ticket is internal (reported by Gary), but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recall either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another bug or a mailing list post where the justification was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable classes can still use a Logger instance field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (not everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses a static field for the Logger for some reason). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 July 2016 at 11:32, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked myself the same question and I guess the answer is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Logger is included in lots of classes, many of which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be easier for us to make AbstractLogger Serializable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then for all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the users to mark it as transient and have to manually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instantiate the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Logger during de-Serialization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So then why is AbstractLogger, and our implementation in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j-core, Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think there is a way to know what folks are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing out there... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any providers not using AbstractLogger? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably to leave the decision on whether to support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serialization to each provider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016 3:14 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger is Serializable, but the Logger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface is not. Why is it so? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender >>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>> >>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>> Senior software developer >>>>> >>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>> >>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>> email. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>> >>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>> Senior software developer >>>> >>>> *Magine TV* >>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>> >>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>> email. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> [image: MagineTV] >>> >>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>> Senior software developer >>> >>> *Magine TV* >>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>> >>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>> email. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> [image: MagineTV] >> >> *Mikael Ståldal* >> Senior software developer >> >> *Magine TV* >> mikael.stal...@magine.com >> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >> >> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >> email. >> >> > > > -- > [image: MagineTV] > > *Mikael Ståldal* > Senior software developer > > *Magine TV* > mikael.stal...@magine.com > Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com > > Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this > message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message > (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not > copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, > you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply > email. > -- [image: MagineTV] *Mikael Ståldal* Senior software developer *Magine TV* mikael.stal...@magine.com Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
