Sure. What is the expectation here? Do deserialized Loggers work? Sent from my iPhone
> On 2016/07/26, at 17:26, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: > > Can we at least document that we guarantee that Loggers from log4j-impl are > always serializable? > >> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 2016/07/26, at 1:43, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>> >>> The purpose is that the user of Log4j can be sure that the Logger is >>> serializable. >> >> If that is a consideration, the user can select an implementation that is >> fit for purpose. >> >> I generally prefer not to make too many guarantees in an interface to give >> implementations more flexibility. >> >>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> But to what purpose? Does Log4j itself need this? Is this a case of YAGNI? >>>> >>>> If I have a Logger in an object I serialize, and the class implementing >>>> Logger is serializable, then I am good to go. >>>> >>>> Making Logger Serializable, would make this obvious to users and might >>>> make some developers warm and fuzzy. It just seems like an odd requirement >>>> for ALL implementors of Loggers to be serializable. As a third party >>>> Logger implementor, that does not mean it would be done properly. >>>> Implementing the interface is no guarantee of proper behavior. >>>> >>>> Overall, it seems like it would make Log4j less friendly to 3rd party >>>> implementors. Are there even any? >>>> >>>> Gary >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>> But maybe we actually want to force all implementations to be >>>>> serializable? >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I think the theory is it is preferable to let implementors of an >>>>>> interface implement java.io.Serializable instead of letting the >>>>>> interface extend java.io.Serializable. That gives future implementors >>>>>> the freedom to choose to either implement Serializable or not. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>> It seems like serializable logger is useful in Apache Spark, which is >>>>>>> popular to use from Scala. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Do Scala programmers use Serializable a lot, or is there a better >>>>>>>> mechanism there? Because if there's a more Scala way of doing it, that >>>>>>>> would make more sense. Otherwise, you can always add Serializable >>>>>>>> later, but you shouldn't remove it once it's part of the public API. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 25 July 2016 at 03:06, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am asking this since I'm considering making the Scala Logger >>>>>>>>> wrapper Serializable. Would that be a good idea? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Users can rely on the fact that loggers are always Serializable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I guess we could also document that fact if we don't want to mark >>>>>>>>>> the interface Serializable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ralph Goers >>>>>>>>>>> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> What advantage is gained by declaring the interface Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should limit ourselves to what we add to the API >>>>>>>>>>>> just for the sake of alternative implementations. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory >>>>>>>>>>>> <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think you want to _force_ all implementation to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable. Serialization is not a main feature of loggers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> logging is. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But if this is a feature that is useful for some users, why not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully advertise it by making the Logger interface Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's Serializable because there was a feature request for it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The jira ticket is internal (reported by Gary), but I recall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either another bug or a mailing list post where the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justification was so that serializable classes can still use a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Logger instance field (not everyone uses a static field for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Logger for some reason). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 July 2016 at 11:32, Ralph Goers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked myself the same question and I guess the answer is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Logger is included in lots of classes, many of which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. It would be easier for us to make AbstractLogger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable then for all the users to mark it as transient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have to manually instantiate the Logger during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> de-Serialization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So then why is AbstractLogger, and our implementation in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j-core, Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Gary Gregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think there is a way to know what folks are doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any providers not using AbstractLogger? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably to leave the decision on whether to support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serialization to each provider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016 3:14 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger is Serializable, but the Logger interface >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not. Why is it so? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated in this message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>>>>>> email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>>>> email. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>> Senior software developer >>>>> >>>>> Magine TV >>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>> >>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>> email. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Mikael Ståldal >>> Senior software developer >>> >>> Magine TV >>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>> >>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not >>> copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>> email. > > > > -- > > > Mikael Ståldal > Senior software developer > > Magine TV > mikael.stal...@magine.com > Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com > > Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. > If you are not the addressee indicated in this message > (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not > copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, > you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. >
