What is the exact use case? Who needs this, and what do they want to accomplish? If Apache Spark needs this we should be able to find out more without having to guess...
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 9:36 PM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: > And if we cannot fix it, we should remove Serializable from AbstractLogger. > > On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com > > wrote: > >> If that's the case, we should reopen >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-801 >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> But realistically it may not be easy to spin up a background thread etc >>> on deserialization. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 2016/07/26, at 20:08, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> It seems like this should be the case already: >>> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-801 >>> >>> What about AsyncLogger though? >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Mikael Ståldal < >>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That deserialized loggers work (given that all needed dependencies are >>>> on classpath) is a reasonable expectation. If we cannot guarantee >>>> that, then we should not declare that loggers are serializable. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sure. What is the expectation here? >>>>> Do deserialized Loggers work? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 2016/07/26, at 17:26, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Can we at least document that we guarantee that Loggers from >>>>> log4j-impl are always serializable? >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2016/07/26, at 1:43, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The purpose is that the user of Log4j can be sure that the Logger is >>>>>> serializable. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If that is a consideration, the user can select an implementation >>>>>> that is fit for purpose. >>>>>> >>>>>> I generally prefer not to make too many guarantees in an interface to >>>>>> give implementations more flexibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> But to what purpose? Does Log4j itself need this? Is this a case of >>>>>>> YAGNI? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If I have a Logger in an object I serialize, and the class >>>>>>> implementing Logger is serializable, then I am good to go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Making Logger Serializable, would make this obvious to users and >>>>>>> might make some developers warm and fuzzy. It just seems like an odd >>>>>>> requirement for ALL implementors of Loggers to be serializable. As a >>>>>>> third >>>>>>> party Logger implementor, that does not mean it would be done properly. >>>>>>> Implementing the interface is no guarantee of proper behavior. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Overall, it seems like it would make Log4j less friendly to 3rd >>>>>>> party implementors. Are there even any? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But maybe we actually want to force all implementations to be >>>>>>>> serializable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the theory is it is preferable to let implementors of an >>>>>>>>> interface implement java.io.Serializable instead of letting the >>>>>>>>> interface >>>>>>>>> extend java.io.Serializable. That gives future implementors the >>>>>>>>> freedom to >>>>>>>>> choose to either implement Serializable or not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It seems like serializable logger is useful in Apache Spark, >>>>>>>>>> which is popular to use from Scala. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do Scala programmers use Serializable a lot, or is there a >>>>>>>>>>> better mechanism there? Because if there's a more Scala way of >>>>>>>>>>> doing it, >>>>>>>>>>> that would make more sense. Otherwise, you can always add >>>>>>>>>>> Serializable >>>>>>>>>>> later, but you shouldn't remove it once it's part of the public API. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 25 July 2016 at 03:06, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am asking this since I'm considering making the Scala Logger >>>>>>>>>>>> wrapper Serializable. Would that be a good idea? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Users can rely on the fact that loggers are always >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we could also document that fact if we don't want to >>>>>>>>>>>>> mark the interface Serializable. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What advantage is gained by declaring the interface >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should limit ourselves to what we add to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> API just for the sake of alternative implementations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think you want to _force_ all implementation to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable. Serialization is not a main feature of loggers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logging is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But if this is a feature that is useful for some users, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not fully advertise it by making the Logger interface >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Matt Sicker < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's Serializable because there was a feature request for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. The jira ticket is internal (reported by Gary), but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recall either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another bug or a mailing list post where the justification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was so that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable classes can still use a Logger instance field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (not everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses a static field for the Logger for some reason). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 July 2016 at 11:32, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked myself the same question and I guess the answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that Logger is included in lots of classes, many of which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. It would be easier for us to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger Serializable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then for all the users to mark it as transient and have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instantiate the Logger during de-Serialization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So then why is AbstractLogger, and our implementation in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j-core, Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think there is a way to know what folks are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing out there... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any providers not using AbstractLogger? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably to leave the decision on whether to support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serialization to each provider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016 3:14 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger is Serializable, but the Logger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface is not. Why is it so? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone. 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In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. 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In such case, >>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>> >>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>> >>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>>> email. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>> >>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>> Senior software developer >>>>> >>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>> >>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>> email. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>> >>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>> Senior software developer >>>> >>>> *Magine TV* >>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>> >>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>> email. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> [image: MagineTV] >>> >>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>> Senior software developer >>> >>> *Magine TV* >>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>> >>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>> email. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> [image: MagineTV] >> >> *Mikael Ståldal* >> Senior software developer >> >> *Magine TV* >> mikael.stal...@magine.com >> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >> >> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >> email. >> > > > > -- > [image: MagineTV] > > *Mikael Ståldal* > Senior software developer > > *Magine TV* > mikael.stal...@magine.com > Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com > > Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this > message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message > (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not > copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, > you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply > email. >
