Re: Apache log4net Needs Help

Sun, 02 Oct 2016 23:50:15 -0700

One thing to note is that the development of a stable logging framework is rather slow. I would not want the most stable (in regards of features and API) part of a software to need regular updates. This is one of the main reasons why we mainly focus on stability issues. The lack of manpower influences the development of new features. There are a few ideas/issues that we would like to address, but with the estimated efforts we are unable to complete these tasks in the near future. 


Note, too, that nobody here is going to sell you log4net as the logging 
framework that works for you. It is (probably) your task to find a 
solution that works for you. That said, I usually implement a logging 
facade in every project unless the project is too small or short-lived. 
This allows us to decouple the application from third party dependencies 
and increases maintainability. Until now we never had to change the 
logging framework but nobody can predict the future and it is better to 
have yet another layer of abstraction than having to refactor thousands 
of logging statements anytime in the future.




Beside that, what kind of feedback do you expect? I will gladly answer 
your questions.



Best regards

Dominik


On 03/10/2016 04:21, Nicholas Duane wrote:



Just curious if anyone has any feedback?  One reason I ask is because 
I again just got an email from someone in my group and it's in 
reference to the COE (Center Of Excellence) team wanting to recommend 
nlog for the enterprise for logging on Windows/.NET.



Thanks,

Nick


------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Nicholas Duane <nic...@msn.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:03 AM
*To:* log4net-user@logging.apache.org
*Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help

Maybe a bit of history would help.



We had written our own logging framework a while back, prior to the 
launch of .NET.  It was a Windows only framework which under the 
covers used ETW (Event Trace for Windows), a very high performance 
logging mechanism which is used by the Windows kernel and other 
Microsoft products, like SQL Server.  Shortly after .NET was launched 
we created a managed interface for that.  That was running fine for 
10+ years and is still running fine.




More recently we had the need to capture a specific type of event 
across many application in the enterprise.  While we could have 
attempted to use our existing logging framework we would have needed 
to extend it for a couple reasons:




1. It was a Windows only framework and we would need to support both 
Windows and Java, the majority of Java applications running on Linux.




2.  It currently exposed a fixed set of events that could be raised.  
This new event would have to be added to the fixed set or we would 
have had to open up the API and allow the consumer to specify their 
own schema.




3. It captured the events in a relational database.  We want to route 
this new event to an HDFS backend.




We decided to look at off the shelf logging frameworks instead of 
creating one of our own.  While there are several logging frameworks 
on the java side, log4j/log4j2 appeared to be the clear winner.  On 
the .NET side there was no "clear" winner.  We looked at 
System.Diagnostics (the logging/tracing classes provided by .NET), 
nlog, log4net and Enterprise Logging (the application block).  From 
that list only nlog and log4net were viable options.  One of the major 
issues people had with log4net was the fact that it appeared it had 
been abandoned, which I guess it was.  The 1.2.13 release had been out 
for more than 2 years I think.  In fact, our .NET Center of Excellence 
team was recommending nlog for .NET and I think one of the main 
reasons for that was the lack of development on log4net.



There were a few things I liked about log4net.



* The fact that it was a port of log4j I saw as a benefit.  If I'm 
looking for a logging framework for both .net and java and I can get 
the same framework that works on both that's ideal.  It means both 
would roughly have the same or similar API and features.  Ideally the 
configuration is the same or similar for both.




* I'm pretty sure I looked over the nlog api and didn't like it as 
much as the log4net api.




* I also liked, and thought was a key feature, the "logger" 
inheritance feature of both log4net and log4j(2).



Thanks,

Nick


------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Dominik Psenner <dpsen...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:26 AM
*To:* log4net-user@logging.apache.org
*Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help


That's an interesting point. Would you mind to share your thoughts and 
reasons why you picked log4net over other logging frameworks beyond 
being a log4j port?



On 2016-09-20 01:30, Nicholas Duane wrote:



I can understand the breaking changes thing, but my impression is 
that straying from the log4j design is a bad idea.  What I think 
would be ideal is an apache logging architecture/design and then 
ports to java, log4j, and .NET, log4net.  One of the big benefits I 
see is having "relatively" the same logging framework run on both 
major platforms.




The one reason we picked log4net is because we chose lo4j2 on java.  
And having similar design was a benefit.  If we evaluated log4net on 
its own I'm not sure we would have picked it.



Thanks,

Nick

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Walden H. Leverich <wald...@techsoftinc.com>
*Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 3:49 PM
*To:* Log4NET User
*Subject:* RE: Apache log4net Needs Help


>Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the 
latest log4j2?



Maybe this is a discussion for the dev list, and granted I haven’t 
looked at what the changes are in log4j2, but my gut reaction is that 
a new port might be a bad idea. Yes, log4net started as a port of 
log4j (or at least that’s my understanding) but it’s a mature logging 
framework in its own right today with a huge user base and numerous 
production deployments. A new “port” sounds to me like it’s 
synonymous with breaking changes and that’s a colossally bad idea.



Are there things we can learn from the latest log4j2? Of course there 
are. Maybe there should be a log4net2 project? I don’t know. But 
whatever the evolution is of log4net it needs to be something that 
isn’t so revolutionary as to cause me to reevaluate my logging 
infrastructure.


-Walden

--
Walden H Leverich III
(516) 627-3800 x3051
wald...@techsoftinc.com <mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com>

*From:*Nicholas Duane [mailto:nic...@msn.com]
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:19 AM
*To:* Log4NET User <log4net-user@logging.apache.org>
*Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help


I had asked about this in the past and I figured I would ask again 
after seeing this mail.  Any chance that we'll get a log4net version 
which is a "port" of the latest log4j2?


Thanks,

Nick

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:*Stefan Bodewig <bode...@apache.org <mailto:bode...@apache.org>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:32 AM
*To:* Log4NET User
*Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help

Welcome!

even though the official build system currently is NAnt, development
with your setup is supposed to work (if it doesn't, it is a bug).

The first thing you should do is to join the log4net-dev mailing list.

I think we need help in virtually any area - fixing bug, discussing
changes, documentation, testing ... you name it.

In general you pick what you want to work on, nobody is going to assign
work to anybody else. We are all doing this in our spare time and it is
supposed to be fun :-)

You may want to take a look at the JIRA issues to see whether you find
anything you'd like to work on. You know better than anybody else where
you can use your talent best - and what would be interesting to you.

Cheers

        Stefan

On 2016-09-13, Shivinder Singh wrote:

> Hello,

> I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If 
there is anything I can do let me know.


> Thanks,
> Shivinder Singh
>> 1-409-330-3608
> shivindersi...@hotmail.com <mailto:shivindersi...@hotmail.com>


>> From: bode...@apache.org <mailto:bode...@apache.org>

>> To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org 
<mailto:log4net-...@logging.apache.org>

>> Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help

>> CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org 
<mailto:log4net-user@logging.apache.org>; gene...@logging.apache.org 
<mailto:gene...@logging.apache.org>; d...@lucenenet.apache.org 
<mailto:d...@lucenenet.apache.org>

>> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200

>> This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their
>> logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are
>> using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get
>> involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on!
>> We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at
>> the Apache Software Foundation.

>> In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more
>> than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three
>> people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source
>> projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the
>> amount of time they could invest have changed.

>> At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people
>> semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote
>> as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be
>> required.

>> Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new
>> features is not going to happen.

>> This has repeatedly made log4net lag behind recent developments in the
>> .NET world. It took a long time to get a version out that properly
>> worked with .NET 4.0 in 2011 and adaptions to .NET 4.5 also took much
>> longer than many users would have wished. We are seeing it again with
>> .NET Core right now. In addition there are many unresolved issues in
>> log4net's JIRA.

>> Despite this there are more than 2500 downloads of the logging
>> framework every day from nuget. We are asking you, the log4net
>> community, to get your hands dirty.

>> Right now we are in the process of creating a log4net release that
>> works for .NET Core. It is a very targeted effort and it is very
>> unlikely Dominik and Stefan will be able to contribute more in the
>> future than we did during the past months.

>> If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and
>> raise your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things
>> you'd like to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask,
>> Dominik and Stefan will be there to help.

>> If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss
>> it and get it out of the way. Nothing is carved into stone, neither
>> what the future of log4net holds nor how we make it happen.

>> Links

>> log4net's JIRA: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET


Log4net - ASF JIRA - issues.apache.org 
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET>


issues.apache.org


The Apache log4net library is a tool to help the programmer output 
log statements to a variety of output targets. log4net is a port of 
the excellent Apache log4j ...



>> dev mailing list: https://logging.apache.org/log4net/mail-lists.html
>> How the ASF works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>> https://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html




























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