I think it is very wrong to remove vi from exam because vi editor basically il is important red hat and author system
Cordialement El Najim Mohamed Ingénieur système Tél 06.23.96.40.08 > Le 4 avr. 2016 à 22:10, [email protected] a écrit : > > Send lpi-discuss mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of lpi-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? (Alan McKinnon) > 2. Re: is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? (Fernando Roca) > 3. Re: is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? (Anselm Lingnau) > 4. Re: is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? (Anselm Lingnau) > 5. Re: is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? (Fernando Roca) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 20:03:30 +0200 > From: Alan McKinnon <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [lpi-discuss] is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I agree, a sysadmin should know vi{,m} because their are many cases > where it is required. > > So many tools (e.g. crontab, cvs) use $EDITOR as their frontend and > while a user can change their own environment, they probably should not > change root's when first logging onto a new machine. > > Editing a crontab is very likely to present the sysadmin with vi so the > sysadmin minimally needs to know <ESC>:q > > It's got very little to do with the quality of the editor itself, > everything to do with a tool we are required to use. > >> On 04/04/2016 18:28, Sergio Belkin wrote: >> Hi, >> >> It's an old discussion, but I've found interesting. IMHO I think that >> sometimes it was discussed the wrong issue. It's not about if vi/vim >> it's of my taste or not. It's about if it's relevant. And I think vim is >> still relevant. It's the main editor on many distros and it's perfect >> for embedded Linuxes. >> >> On the other hand, we can discuss endlessly about the best paradigm, >> such as in the old war vim-emacs... single tools or a multipurpose tool... >> >> In my proper experience, people working around of me always used vim. >> Also I insist we should not mix relevance with choices. For example, I >> am against of unix eilistm, but IMHO vim is by far much more productive >> that nano despite its easy of use at first look. >> >> Greetings >> >> 2015-04-13 16:53 GMT-03:00 Anselm Lingnau <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>: >> >> Andrzej Szczygielski <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> People aspiring to be IT professional should be ready to be inconvenienced >>> by complexity of technology he/she is going to deal with >> >> People aspiring to be IT professionals should be encouraged to *avoid* >> complexity wherever possible. There is a very widespread misconception >> that ?complex = good? which is at the root of many issues that plague us >> today. If there's any choice at all we should go for the simple >> approaches. Simple is easier to use, easier to write, easier to >> configure, easier to debug, easier to understand, easier to >> document. Simple is safer. >> >> IOW, many problems in IT have complex solutions because simple solutions >> for them appear not to be feasible. Text editing does not belong to that >> class of problem. It should not be made arbitrarily complex just to >> please some people who have already spent altogether too much time on >> the needlessly-complex approach and believe that now everyone else >> should have to, too. >> >> Anselm >> -- >> Anselm Lingnau ... Linup Front GmbH ... Linux-, Open-Source- & >> Netz-Schulungen >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>, >> +49(0)6151-9067-103, Fax -299, www.linupfront.de >> <http://www.linupfront.de> >> Linup Front GmbH, Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt, Germany >> Sitz: Weiterstadt (AG Darmstadt, HRB7705), Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Oliver >> Michel >> _______________________________________________ >> lpi-discuss mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Sergio Belkin >> LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lpi-discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss > > > -- > Alan McKinnon > [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:04:25 +0200 > From: Fernando Roca <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [lpi-discuss] is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? > To: "General discussion relating to LPI." <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <cae3l3-8qdxqe_xuwgccrua9czsp5kksuxrrbuzsrp6pfgz0...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Whenever LPI retires vi from his requirements I will know the time to > retire LPI from my CV as a serious certification has arrived. > > Vi has been the standard editor from a long ago, other unix systems > (HPUX,AIX, solaris etc) heavily trust in vi (I know LPI is linux, but > learning linux has a side effect of learning unix in some way, and believe > me there are plenty of unix systems ), vi will be the tool you will always > find available, vi is powerfull, plenty of options and capabilities, other > editors (nano, pic etc) may seem easier (I wouldnt say they are easier but > just diferent) but do not fullfill vi capabilities and power. > > I understand the point of putting vi to death if thats stated by some > newbie who comes from wintel systems who gets frustrated, its the only > logic, you would never find a serious unix senior sysadmin going against vi. > > For what I think vi will be alive forever, and I wouldnt want it in any > other way :) (that last sentence is just my personal though) > > Regards > > 2015-04-10 21:23 GMT+02:00 Ted Jordan, JordanTeam Learning LLC < > [email protected]>: > >> i personally love vi. I know it forward and backwards. it's my editor of >> choice. I use vi over openoffice (ok, maybe not that far :-) >> >> but should it still be tested since nano is an ok alternative? >> >> I guess while I'm here I'd also like to add to the removal list: >> expand unexpand fmt split nl join paste >> >> are these still used a lot today? >> >> -- >> ted jordan, principal [email protected] >> JordanTeam Learning LLC >> Making the World Computer Smarter >> >> To be more responsive to clients email is read ONCE >> in the AFTERNOON ONLY Monday - Friday >> Please CALL to reach otherwise >> >> 216 926 3905 direct >> 800 Main Street, PMB 124 Holden, MA 01520 >> [email protected] USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lpi-discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://list.lpi.org/pipermail/lpi-discuss/attachments/20160404/273d5337/attachment-0001.htm > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 21:18:57 +0200 > From: Anselm Lingnau <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [lpi-discuss] is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <3886289.r1PXRFGb42@ceol> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Alan McKinnon wrote: > >> I agree, a sysadmin should know vi{,m} because their are many cases >> where it is required. > > These days vi is almost never actually ?required?. It turns out that when I > type ?crontab? as root on my all-defaults Debian Jessie system, it's not > vi{,m} that comes up ? and people could always type ?EDITOR=nano crontab? if > it did. Having said that, a little vi knowledge never hurt anybody ? it's > just > that for the purposes of the exam we should limit this to the barest minimum > that is still reasonable, instead of having a fat ?know vi? objective that > just makes people's heads spin for no discernible extra benefit. > > At the risk of sounding like a broken record, as far as I'm concerned it is > completely sufficient from an exam POV to require knowledge of vi's basic > movement commands (hjkl and/or cursor keys), i, x, dd, y and j, possibly /, > and ZZ. This is what you need as a sysadmin in order to change a few lines in > a configuration file, and can be conveniently learned and practiced by > spending 20 minutes with ?vimtutor? while the instructor is having a cup of > coffee and checking their e-mail. It is also considerably less than what is > currently stipulated by objective 103.8, and that objective could then easily > be downgraded from 3 to 2 weight points (or even 1) to free up desperately > needed questions for use elsewhere. > > If people really want to use vi to write the Great American Novel or the next > free operating system kernel, they remain perfectly free to find out as much > about it as they desire outside of LPIC-1 prep. But we shouldn't waste the > precious time of people who prefer other, more intuitive and up-to-date > editors for their day-to-day work by forcing them to learn loads of vi arcana > that are otherwise completely useless to them. Nor should we pretend to them > that vi is the only worthwhile editor in existence and that everyone should > be > using it for everything. > > Anselm > -- > Anselm Lingnau ? Linup Front GmbH (MAX21) ? Linux- & Open-Source-Schulungen > [email protected], +49(0)6151-9067-0, Fax -299, www.linupfront.de > Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt Post: Postf. 100121, 64201 Darmstadt DE > Sitz: Weiterstadt (AG Darmstadt, HRB7705) Geschf: Oliver Michel, Nils Manegold > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 21:36:17 +0200 > From: Anselm Lingnau <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [lpi-discuss] is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <1940002.etB6beRKt5@ceol> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Fernando Roca wrote: > >> vi is powerfull, plenty of options and capabilities, other >> editors (nano, pic etc) may seem easier (I wouldnt say they are easier but >> just diferent) but do not fullfill vi capabilities and power. > > Nobody needs vi's ?capabilities and power? if all they want to do is edit two > lines in a crontab file. For that, vi's ?capabilities and power? are > essentially irrelevant. Things might be different if you write documents or > source code of considerable length and/or complexity, but there are literally > dozens of editors now which are just as capable or more so. > > Everyone should be free to use vi if that is really what they want, but we > shouldn't require people to learn vi to a point where they can write and edit > a 100,000-line C program, using all the great and unique features of vi that > help with editing 100,000-line C programs, when all they really want to do as > root is change a few lines in a configuration file, and when to write larger > documents from scratch they prefer something like KDE's kate (which is a very > good editor these days). > >> For what I think vi will be alive forever, and I wouldnt want it in any >> other way :) (that last sentence is just my personal though) > > Nobody wants to take vi away from you. We just don't see the need to force it > on anyone else just because you like it. > > Anselm > -- > Anselm Lingnau ? Linup Front GmbH (MAX21) ? Linux- & Open-Source-Schulungen > [email protected], +49(0)6151-9067-0, Fax -299, www.linupfront.de > Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt Post: Postf. 100121, 64201 Darmstadt DE > Sitz: Weiterstadt (AG Darmstadt, HRB7705) Geschf: Oliver Michel, Nils Manegold > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:50:30 +0200 > From: Fernando Roca <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [lpi-discuss] is it time to remove "vi" from the exam? > To: "General discussion relating to LPI." <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <CAE3L3-8B66xnpR=_mobz6vo6d6nlk8rloyubfwdpjyyykpm...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This is just what you think, for what I think whatever anyone needs is not > the same as you state, because what you are exposing is not what a sysadmin > do with vi, I know several sysadmins (being one myself), none of them uses > nano, kate or whatever, everyone uses vi (speaking about text editors) . > > I agree anyone should be free to use his fauvorite editor of course, I dont > agree with the argument of vi being usefull just for editing C source code > (no sense here). Learn vi, know vi (at least the basics), and if you want > use another editor, you will come back to vi later when you improve your > skills and your capabilities (or maybe you wouldnt, but this way you had > the chance to make a proper decision with a good base of knowledge). > > KDE kate ? a X editor ? OMG sysadmin use a plain text terminal 99% of time. > > What you forget is that LPI is suposed ot be a linux sysadmin cert, not a > regular user cert. > > You make the mistake of thinking that your preferences are the desires of > sysadmins or the better for them, but its not, come on, be serious, anyone > would even consider to hire a linux/unix syadmin who doesnt even have > basics vi skills ? I would remark vi skills arent even a requirement , but > a basic ! > > Regards > > 2016-04-04 21:36 GMT+02:00 Anselm Lingnau <[email protected]>: > >> Fernando Roca wrote: >> >>> vi is powerfull, plenty of options and capabilities, other >>> editors (nano, pic etc) may seem easier (I wouldnt say they are easier >> but >>> just diferent) but do not fullfill vi capabilities and power. >> >> Nobody needs vi's ?capabilities and power? if all they want to do is edit >> two >> lines in a crontab file. For that, vi's ?capabilities and power? are >> essentially irrelevant. Things might be different if you write documents or >> source code of considerable length and/or complexity, but there are >> literally >> dozens of editors now which are just as capable or more so. >> >> Everyone should be free to use vi if that is really what they want, but we >> shouldn't require people to learn vi to a point where they can write and >> edit >> a 100,000-line C program, using all the great and unique features of vi >> that >> help with editing 100,000-line C programs, when all they really want to do >> as >> root is change a few lines in a configuration file, and when to write >> larger >> documents from scratch they prefer something like KDE's kate (which is a >> very >> good editor these days). >> >>> For what I think vi will be alive forever, and I wouldnt want it in any >>> other way :) (that last sentence is just my personal though) >> >> Nobody wants to take vi away from you. We just don't see the need to force >> it >> on anyone else just because you like it. >> >> Anselm >> -- >> Anselm Lingnau ? Linup Front GmbH (MAX21) ? Linux- & >> Open-Source-Schulungen >> [email protected], +49(0)6151-9067-0, Fax -299, >> www.linupfront.de >> Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt Post: Postf. 100121, 64201 >> Darmstadt DE >> Sitz: Weiterstadt (AG Darmstadt, HRB7705) Geschf: Oliver Michel, Nils >> Manegold >> _______________________________________________ >> lpi-discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://list.lpi.org/pipermail/lpi-discuss/attachments/20160404/3307b993/attachment.htm > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss > > End of lpi-discuss Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2 > *******************************************
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