Again I dont agree. You are right about the falacy : "This is the “we had it tough, so you should too” argument." . But its also true that this guys had the oportunity to leave vi alone and use something else, but hey ! The didnt ! Surprise ! All these stupid sysadmins took the wrong decisions and remained into vi because they are ignorant and cannot see the advantage of using other editors like Kate or nano :-) (just kidding here of course but just to show how ridiculous sounds these arguments)
Just because you just use vi to edit a couple of lines from your fstab file doesnt mean that regular sysadmins act this way. And I agree that you can do that with any text editor, but that doesnt mean anything Yes debian uses nano, but vi is still the standard (by far) in linux and unix (if we go into unix you wouldnt find nano at all :-) ), and it will be the standard for a long long time. Also let me say the despite the great respect I have for debian, its not a very used distro when you are on industry (most of linux systems are rhel/suse and derivatives) You can edit several files... cannot understand why do you say you cant ? I dont pretend to be a vi expert but you can do that. LPI 1 states as a cert for junior linux sysadmin (its written in the cert you get when you achieve lpi 101 and 102), LPI 2 states as a cert for senior linux sysadmin (its what states in the cert you get when you achieve 201 and 202), it sounds to me like 2 different levels but both being sysadmin certs. I cannot get the point of the GUI and being root (you can go into X not being root), and while I agree with not being root more than its needed I dont have anything against going into X, I simply stated that sysadmins use plain text terminal 99% of time, just to note that X programs like kate are senseless (dont get me wrong the possibly are quite good for regular users that push the mouse), come on, most of the linux/unix systems in production environments I managed doesnt even the X system installed . I see the point of using IDEs for developments, and I see the point of keys and hardware limitations which is the reason behind some of the keys schema of vi, but, again, I didnt grew up into any mistake, because I grew with vi, but I also had the oportunity to use (and grew with!) all the others text editors and did my choice knowing the good and the bad of the tools I was using (I dont think these debian users the never used vi and went into nano can say the same). No, I didnt read your message stating just a few knowledge from vi. So, lets resume, your point of removing vi its that vi has counterintuitive shortcuts that "people new to linux" find difficult to learn and they dont need vi because they can edit 2 lines of fstab with other text editor, well I can agree with vi being weird for guys who use wintel OS (guys who likes to use something similar to notepad, this is the real reason for text editors like nano), but again , saying vi is weird is just an opinion you have based on your prejudices . Actually, LPI 1 has a very very basic vi commands to learn. Regards. 2016-04-04 23:30 GMT+02:00 Anselm Lingnau <[email protected]>: > Fernando Roca wrote: > > > This is just what you think, for what I think whatever anyone needs is > not > > the same as you state, because what you are exposing is not what a > sysadmin > > do with vi, I know several sysadmins (being one myself), none of them > uses > > nano, kate or whatever, everyone uses vi (speaking about text editors) . > > This is the “we had it tough, so you should too” argument. > > > I agree anyone should be free to use his fauvorite editor of course, I > dont > > agree with the argument of vi being usefull just for editing C source > code > > (no sense here). > > Nobody said that vi is useful “just” for editing C code. But very many > people > use vi only to edit a couple of lines in a configuration file every so > often, > which frankly they could do just as well with just about any other editor. > This is like driving a huge Hummer in the city only to pick up a newspaper > every so often. > > Actually, even the “vi is the standard editor everywhere” argument is > beginning to erode. For example, on Debian Jessie, the default editor for > root > is nano, not vi. > > > Learn vi, know vi (at least the basics), and if you want > > use another editor, you will come back to vi later when you improve your > > skills and your capabilities (or maybe you wouldnt, but this way you had > > the chance to make a proper decision with a good base of knowledge). > > This sounds a bit silly when vi doesn't even support editing several files > simultaneously, which in the 21st century is a basic feature that I use in > my > editor all the time. Yep, great power. (vim does, but then you throw out > the > idea that “vi is everywhere” – Linux often comes with vim, but most other > Unixes don't.) > > > KDE kate ? a X editor ? OMG sysadmin use a plain text terminal 99% of > time. > > > > What you forget is that LPI is suposed ot be a linux sysadmin cert, not a > > regular user cert. > > LPIC-1 isn't actually a Linux sysadmin certificate. It is a general Linux > certificate that contains some sysadmin content. (LPIC-2 is much more of a > sysadmin thing.) > > We teach people to spend as little time logged in as “root” as they > possibly > can. Even sysadmins can, and should, do most of their work logged in as > regular users, and switch to the “root” account only if they need to do > something that requires the special privileges. This is a basic precaution > against slips of the finger. Once you're working as a regular user, there > is > nothing wrong with availing yourself of the convenience of a GUI. > > > You make the mistake of thinking that your preferences are the desires of > > sysadmins or the better for them, but its not, come on, be serious, > anyone > > would even consider to hire a linux/unix syadmin who doesnt even have > > basics vi skills ? I would remark vi skills arent even a requirement , > but > > a basic ! > > Sigh. You must not have read my other message where I say that *basic* vi > skills *should* be on the exam. Like, *really* basic ones. Cursor movement > and > four other commands or so. 1 question or 2, max. What you need to tweak a > configuration file. > > Vi is reasonable for editing configuration files, but for their day-to-day > work (writing papers, letters, e-mails, source code, …) people will pick an > editor that they actually like. Some will pick vi and some will pick > others, > depending on what they want and need. Programmers today may even go for > IDEs > like Eclipse. The problem is that people like you who grew up on vi > mistake it > for a program that everybody should know and use, when it is really > something > that many people who are new to Linux are having – completely avoidable – > difficulties with, especially when they come from other platforms that have > perfectly adequate and intuitive text editors which don't require you to > hit > “i” before and “Esc” after typing some text just because text terminals in > the > 1970s didn't have arrow keys to move the cursor. Forcing people to learn > lots > of vi as a weird rite of passage into the Linux/Unix world is an annoying > and > counterproductive concept and does nobody any favours. > > Anselm > -- > Anselm Lingnau … Linup Front GmbH (MAX21) … Linux- & > Open-Source-Schulungen > [email protected], +49(0)6151-9067-0, Fax -299, > www.linupfront.de > Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt Post: Postf. 100121, 64201 > Darmstadt DE > Sitz: Weiterstadt (AG Darmstadt, HRB7705) Geschf: Oliver Michel, Nils > Manegold > _______________________________________________ > lpi-discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss >
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