On 07/08/19 at 01:12, Anselm Lingnau wrote: > Bryan J Smith wrote: > >> And now you switch to my way of thinking. ;) >> >> I.e., you have to conceed Vi != sendmail, and that Vi is still the >> _default_, if any. ;) >> >> That if we're talking about reducing/removing Vi, we're really talking >> about removing 'interactive' altogether? If so, agreed! ;) > Nope. I don't have a big issue with vi coverage at weight 1, simply because > basic vi is quite easy to learn. I think the current weight-3 objective is a > waste of two perfectly good weight points.
I agree.
> What I can't stand is people claiming that vi is the One True Editor
Cannot remember whom made that claim.
> and that you can't be a True Sysadmin™ unless you use vi.
As before.
> Vi is a living fossil that by historical accident is left over from the
> 1970s.
I disagree. It hasn't survived the decades just "by historical
accident", unlike most SW of the 70's, but also on merit. There are
many things you can do with VI that you cannot with the most often
available replacement console editing software: macros, regexp matching,
text filtering, range-applied commands etc.
Of course LPIC-1 doesn't cover these advanced features, but they are
the reason VI is still alive and kicking, because it's power and
versatility are unmatched.
> I could live with not covering text editing in LPIC-1 at all. That of course
> wouldn't mean text editing doesn't exist or people shouldn't edit text, it's
> just that (a) text editing on Linux in 2019 doesn't necessarily mean “vi”,
> and
> (b) we don't examine people on other very basic skills like typing or using a
> mouse either, we just assume that they're proficient enough at these skills
> to
> do whatever is needed.
Text editing on a console is an OS-specific feature, unike the
keyboard and the mouse.
Being Unix so strongly text-file centered, you've just got to know how
to edit text files from the command line.
> Adding the use of a text editor to this set of basic
> skills isn't a huge thing,
It is, because without you find yourself unable to modify a huge
number of settings of practically every single system service and daemon.
> and we can assume that basic exam prep materials
> and classes will still have a thing or two to say about text editing, even if
> it is “run the ‘vimtutor’ command and I'll see you in a quarter of an hour”.
I know by experience, like very tutor who bothered checking the
pupils' progress, that showing how a software works and having them pass
a live tutorial does *not* teach them how to use the damn thing.
Experience does. Hundreds of times I showed what
awk -F: '($3 >= 1000) {print $1}' /etc/passwd
does only to have to tell people hundred times more and again that $1
and $3 are *not* positional parameters.
It's not that people are wood-headed. It's just that understanding
something does *not* mean you learned it. You learn by doing, re-doing,
doing again and going back to step (1).
--
Alessandro Selli <[email protected]>
VOIP SIP: [email protected]
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