On 03.12.19 18:39, Markus Schade wrote:
Hi Bryan,
Am 03.12.2019 um 17:32 schrieb Bryan J Smith:
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:16 AM Bryan J Smith <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
So, if anyone wants to take this off-list, I'm all ears. I want to
understand Proxmox architecture and code better than I have been
exposed to. Enterprise experience is key for me, and I don't like
to assume from just reading things, especially automating and
orchestrating a lot with other tooling the past, full decade-plus --
both VM and pre-LXC 'cartridges/gears' (i.e., early OpenShift
'pods,' if you will).
So, just for my own info, I made time to look at some things in Proxmox
I hadn't, like HA. Sure enough, it's like OpenStack, using the
Novell-Red Hat HA developments of corrosync, pacemaker, et al.
There's a reason I like oVirt (RH[E]V) more, especially self-hosting in
3.x, let alone v4.x in 2016+. I mean, I haven't had to deal with this
for anything 'raw' KVM like HA in almost a decade.
Proxmox has (at least in Europe) a substantial adoption in the SMB
segment. Working at one of the larger hosting providers (for dedicated
servers), we see significant use. These are primarily customers/people
who have no or very small IT departments. So basically Proxmox offers
them a free (as in beer) equivalent of VMware with a nice GUI that they
can install on top of Debian.
Proxmox is on its own. /Based/ on Debian 10 with a customized Ubuntu
Kernel. Own Repositories, own ISO and own developer team. Yes, you can
install it on top of a default Debian, but this is not the recommend way.
I know from companies who use multiple proxmox clusters and hundreds of
VM's or/in conjunction LXC. And aside that my ex employer and my current
employer do use proxmox and we are not a small mom and pop shop :-)
It's not free when you need support, only the unsupported version is
free (but the same features). Perhaps you tell your observation the
trainer in Saarbrücken, or one of their huge customers (*coughtüvcough*)
It abstracts a lot of the internals
involved in setting up complex things like a Ceph cluster.
Nope, the admin still needs to know Ceph in and out. Yes, you get help
here and there but in a big clustered environment you need skills and
especially you must understand the internal used techniques or you can't
maintain and TSHOOT. The GUI is simply an adjustable interface that
offers a lot but not everything.
Because you can use some assisted help, means not that you now can hire
a monkey. Call Dr.Weil who invented Ceph and that you just can click
some buttons ... or tell that the CERN Team in sitzerland.
So from where I am standing, it is something like Plesk or
Virtualmin/Webmin/Cpanel/DirectAdmin/etc.
Not even close. What is ESXi or Hyper-V for you? They offer all some
kind of GUI and management tools, including an absurd price tag.
The major difference of Proxmox to the RH-world is its orchestration
called qemu-server that they use instead of libvirt:
https://github.com/proxmox/qemu-server
Proxmox Cluster File System (pmxcfs)
<https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Proxmox_Cluster_File_System_(pmxcfs)> is
build by them, which is basically a replication feature to maintain a
cluster in conjunction with other tools like corosync.
As Brian mentioned before, they use many standard tools to facilitate a
whole Virtualization package and they also develop own interfaces,
wrappers and tools that are 100 % own builds of Proxmox .
So while I think Proxmox has significance, I don't see it as a standard
like Docker.
A higher standard than XEN classic, maybe that is only my experience. I
only hear "we use or want use proxmox instead of VMWare" or "KVM but in
combination with proxmox".
We drift away from the topic and as Brian wrote, such topics become
emotional and fanboyish without deep technical details
Also I can't think what kind of questions we would be
asking. The typical user/admin will hardly if ever use the console or be
required to understand how Proxmox works internally. So the coverage
could and should only be awareness and concepts.
Best regards,
Markus
Questions like "what is the Cluster File System" ?
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