Great post. +1 On Jul 24, 2013 8:30 PM, "Benjamin Tayehanpour" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >If you are however, genius enough to have an app the acts as a SIP server > on your mobile device/tablet, I can see the need for public IP on that > device. > > It's really not just about that. It's about independence, about being able > to communicate client-to-client without having to rely on a server to > intermediate. It's about Internet as a tool versus Internet as a mere > service. One old example: Sending a file. In this day and age, it's *still > * not trivial to send a file to someone due to NAT. Today, assuming of > course that the receiver isn't computer-literate, you have these options: > > > - Upload the file to a third-party file sharing site, e. g. Rapidshare > or Yousendit. This is inefficient, since you need to send the whole file to > a server on the other side of the planet and back again, and insecure, > since you have to trust a third-party which has few reasons not to screw > you over. > - E-mail. This is inefficient for reasons already discussed, > impractical for large and/or several files, and doubly inefficient as > e-mail was not really designed for carrying binary data; indeed, > attachments are base64-encoded prior to sending. > - A cloud service, such as Dropbox. This is currently by far the > easiest solution, as you can share files via public URLs. It still carries > with it the inefficiency of taking a detour through the Dropbox servers, > and you still need to entrust Dropbox with your files. It's the best > solution out there today, but it's not a universally good one. > > If NAT didn't exist, it would have been a simple matter to devise a > standard file transfer protocol, in which you would give the recipient your > IP address and some shared secret out-of-band (via e-mail, telephone, or > similar). The transfer would then take the shortest path possible, which I > hear would mean free traffic for DataNet customers, and regardless would > help the Ugandan Internet situation by not using the international > connection unless you actually need to communicate with someone outside > Uganda. > > > On 24 July 2013 17:02, sanga collins <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yes VOIP and NAT definitely do not play well, but majority of the modern >> SIP clients and VOIP phones handle quite easily these days. This is >> assuming the SIP server does have a public IP without NAT interfering. >> >> If you are however, genius enough to have an app the acts as a SIP server >> on your mobile device/tablet, I can see the need for public IP on that >> device. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:08 AM, Benjamin Tayehanpour < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >Mobile Device space is really where the impact could be huge, but >>> unless you are serving up web pages and hosting quake tournments from a >>> tablet or >smartphone I dont see why NAT will be a deal breaker. >>> >>> Fair enough. What about VoIP? Many, if not most, VoIP solutions require >>> some NAT hole-punching at the very least. >>> >>> >>> On 23 July 2013 21:52, sanga collins <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> my home devices are always juniper ssg so not really worried about >>>> IPv6. My provider (Comcast) already configures new modems for residential >>>> and business customers with IPv6. Especially the TV set top boxes and DVRs. >>>> And our Fiber/MetroE is also IPv6 with IPv4 legacy support. >>>> >>>> Mobile Device space is really where the impact could be huge, but >>>> unless you are serving up web pages and hosting quake tournments from a >>>> tablet or smartphone I dont see why NAT will be a deal breaker. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Kyle Spencer <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> ISPs could solve this problem by deploying IPv6. >>>>> >>>>> The problem is, even if they deploy IPv6, they may still NAT mobile >>>>> devices because it keeps them in a position of control. >>>>> On Jul 23, 2013 10:34 PM, "Mwirima Byaruhanga" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> sanga collins wrote thus on 7/23/13 9:26 PM: >>>>>> > Hi Benjamin, I see what you mean. That actually is even worse. I >>>>>> > must admit I am complete spoiled living where I live not having a >>>>>> > public IP is unthinkable! >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm afraid the unthinkable may be upon you soon, get ready. >>>>>> >>>>>> The American IP address registry (ARIN) is soon depleting its IPv4 >>>>>> address inventory. Your ISP will not be able to get any more IPv4 >>>>>> addresses, but will continue growing customers I presume, hence, >>>>>> more and more NAT and the possibility of losing that unicast IP >>>>>> address on your gadget for a private address. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course that's assuming that your ISP will not have implemented >>>>>> IPv6, and even if they do, your gadget needs to support it. >>>>>> >>>>>> eb >>>>>> >>>>>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Benjamin Tayehanpour >>>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > No Sanga, you are thinking of not having static IPs. That can be >>>>>> > alleviated with dynamic DNS services. Not having a *public* IP >>>>>> > is something entirely different. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I agree with everything Kyle says. The problem ultimately boils >>>>>> > down to Uganda's not being a democracy. If the government >>>>>> > operated under threat of expulsion, they would have incentive >>>>>> > actually to care for the individual citizen. As it stands now, >>>>>> > the ISPs can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they >>>>>> > make the government happy by paying homage and taxes. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 23 July 2013 15:27, sanga collins <[email protected] >>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I agree with Kyle's points mostly, I think you can get >>>>>> > around not having a public IP by using Dynamic DNS type >>>>>> > services, but in the long run it is not the most Ideal >>>>>> > solution. Having that fat pipe of bandwidth is IMO the most >>>>>> > crushing aspect. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Peter Atkin >>>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Hi Kyle____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Very good summary completely concur.. people forget that >>>>>> > each situation (Time, Place and Resources) are often >>>>>> > different so difference approaches are required, what >>>>>> > works for one does not mean it will work for the >>>>>> other.____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I am also tired of experts that live in bubbles >>>>>> > completely isolated from other bubble and the real >>>>>> > world. ____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Kind Regards____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Peter Atkin____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > (C.T.O)____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > cfts.co <http://cfts.co> (u) ltd.____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Get I.T.Right ____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > +256-772-700781 <tel:%2B256-772-700781> | Skype: >>>>>> > peter2cfu____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > www.cfts.co.ug <http://www.cfts.co/>| location details >>>>>> > <http://www.cfts.co/contacts.html>| view my profile >>>>>> > <http://ug.linkedin.com/in/peteratkin>____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > *From:*[email protected] >>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> > [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Kyle >>>>>> > Spencer >>>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:38 PM >>>>>> > *To:* Uganda Linux User Group >>>>>> > *Subject:* Re: [LUG] Why the Silicon Valleys' of Africa >>>>>> > will never match the US Silicon Valley____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Hi, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > This is going to be a bit of an off-topic angry rant, >>>>>> > but I'll add my two cents here: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I'm really sick of going to tech events and watching >>>>>> > panels of fly-in's from the World Bank, established >>>>>> > corporations, or whatever, tell us we need to "think >>>>>> > bigger" or that we should look at Silicon Valley as some >>>>>> > kind of model to emulate. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In my opinion this notion is ridiculous, primarily >>>>>> > because the technology we have access to today is >>>>>> > fundamentally different than what Silicon Valley had in >>>>>> > its heyday. It's functionality has been crippled to >>>>>> > benefit incumbents and prevent disruptive technology: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 1) Nobody has a public IP address. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > While we've bypassed the desktop revolution and jumped >>>>>> > straight to smart-phones, Internet access is now sold by >>>>>> > mobile operators who NAT everyone's connection. This >>>>>> > prevents phones from receiving incoming connections from >>>>>> > the outside world. This makes peer-to-peer networking >>>>>> > nearly impossible and severely limits the potential >>>>>> > functionality of mobile applications. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > As a result, application developers typically must >>>>>> > purchase "cloud" services in order to relay data between >>>>>> > their users. Control over the network has become >>>>>> > centralized and established service providers have >>>>>> > become gatekeepers. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2) Data-caps. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Silicon Valley exploded when users moved from AOL, >>>>>> > CompuServe, Prodigy, and other services -- which sold >>>>>> > walled-garden access by the "minute" -- to flat-rate >>>>>> > Internet plans sold by speed (e.g. dial-up, DSL, cable). >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Users did not have to make a cost decision every time >>>>>> > they wanted to try out new (often higher bandwidth) >>>>>> > services like multi-player gaming, Napster, Shoutcast, >>>>>> > YouTube, MySpace, or whatever. Thus, new services >>>>>> > frequently emerged, many exploded in popularity, and >>>>>> > networks had a huge incentive to reinvest in their >>>>>> networks. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In the wondrous desktop-skipping mobile revolution of >>>>>> > today, access is sold almost exclusively via data-capped >>>>>> > bundles. Users need to make a cost decision every time >>>>>> > they do anything on the Internet. Disruptive, often >>>>>> > high-bandwidth services like YouTube are now an >>>>>> > impossible proposition because users can't afford to use >>>>>> > the service. Service providers no longer have as much >>>>>> > incentive to reinvest in their networks. Application >>>>>> > developers shuffle around small amounts of data between >>>>>> > users and nothing more. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In summary, expecting East Africa (or anywhere today) to >>>>>> > emulate Silicon Valley is ridiculous. We can't be the >>>>>> > same thing; we don't have the same tools. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Regards, >>>>>> > Kyle Spencer >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Otandeka Simon Peter >>>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>> > wrote:____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Food for thought..____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.iddsalim.com/blog/2013/07/08/3-reasons-why-silicon-semenya-kenya-will-never-match-silicon-valley-us/____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > P. ____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails >>>>>> > to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> > Mailing list settings: >>>>>> http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by >>>>>> > INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted >>>>>> > them (including attachments if any). The mailing list >>>>>> > host is not responsible for them in any way.____ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> > This e-mail is company confidential and may contain >>>>>> > legally privileged information. >>>>>> > If you are not the intended recipient, you should not >>>>>> > copy, distribute, disclose or use the information it >>>>>> > contains. Please e-mail the sender immediately and >>>>>> > delete this message from your system. >>>>>> > Note: e-mails are susceptible to corruption, >>>>>> > interception and unauthorized amendment; we do not >>>>>> > accept liability for any such changes, or for their >>>>>> > consequences. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails >>>>>> > to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> > Mailing list settings: >>>>>> http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by >>>>>> > INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted >>>>>> > them (including attachments if any). The mailing list >>>>>> > host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Sanga M. Collins >>>>>> > Network Engineering >>>>>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> > Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>>>>> > E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>> > (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>> > responsible for them in any way. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>> > (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>> > responsible for them in any way. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Sanga M. Collins >>>>>> > Network Engineering >>>>>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> > Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>>>>> > E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible >>>>>> for them in any way. >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> >>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> >>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible >>>>>> for them in any way. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>> >>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>> >>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>> >>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible >>>>> for them in any way. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sanga M. Collins >>>> Network Engineering >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>>> E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>> >>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>> [email protected] >>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>> >>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>> >>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>>> any way. >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>> >>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>> [email protected] >>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>> >>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>> >>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>> any way. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sanga M. Collins >> Network Engineering >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >> E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >> >> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >> [email protected] >> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >> >> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >> >> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >> any way. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. >
_______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
