Benjamin, This is why I want to see native IPV6 deployment not NATV6 which will just bring back all the problems you have highlighted. Sanga as an alternative to DropBox did u try checking out Bitorrents new client-client app or OwnCloud?
On 24 July 2013 19:55, Kyle Spencer <[email protected]> wrote: > Great post. +1 > > On Jul 24, 2013 8:30 PM, "Benjamin Tayehanpour" <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> >If you are however, genius enough to have an app the acts as a SIP server >> > on your mobile device/tablet, I can see the need for public IP on that >> > device. >> >> It's really not just about that. It's about independence, about being able >> to communicate client-to-client without having to rely on a server to >> intermediate. It's about Internet as a tool versus Internet as a mere >> service. One old example: Sending a file. In this day and age, it's still >> not trivial to send a file to someone due to NAT. Today, assuming of course >> that the receiver isn't computer-literate, you have these options: >> >> Upload the file to a third-party file sharing site, e. g. Rapidshare or >> Yousendit. This is inefficient, since you need to send the whole file to a >> server on the other side of the planet and back again, and insecure, since >> you have to trust a third-party which has few reasons not to screw you over. >> E-mail. This is inefficient for reasons already discussed, impractical for >> large and/or several files, and doubly inefficient as e-mail was not really >> designed for carrying binary data; indeed, attachments are base64-encoded >> prior to sending. >> A cloud service, such as Dropbox. This is currently by far the easiest >> solution, as you can share files via public URLs. It still carries with it >> the inefficiency of taking a detour through the Dropbox servers, and you >> still need to entrust Dropbox with your files. It's the best solution out >> there today, but it's not a universally good one. >> >> If NAT didn't exist, it would have been a simple matter to devise a >> standard file transfer protocol, in which you would give the recipient your >> IP address and some shared secret out-of-band (via e-mail, telephone, or >> similar). The transfer would then take the shortest path possible, which I >> hear would mean free traffic for DataNet customers, and regardless would >> help the Ugandan Internet situation by not using the international >> connection unless you actually need to communicate with someone outside >> Uganda. >> >> >> >> On 24 July 2013 17:02, sanga collins <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Yes VOIP and NAT definitely do not play well, but majority of the modern >>> SIP clients and VOIP phones handle quite easily these days. This is assuming >>> the SIP server does have a public IP without NAT interfering. >>> >>> If you are however, genius enough to have an app the acts as a SIP server >>> on your mobile device/tablet, I can see the need for public IP on that >>> device. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:08 AM, Benjamin Tayehanpour >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >Mobile Device space is really where the impact could be huge, but >>>> > unless you are serving up web pages and hosting quake tournments from a >>>> > tablet or >smartphone I dont see why NAT will be a deal breaker. >>>> >>>> Fair enough. What about VoIP? Many, if not most, VoIP solutions require >>>> some NAT hole-punching at the very least. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23 July 2013 21:52, sanga collins <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> my home devices are always juniper ssg so not really worried about >>>>> IPv6. My provider (Comcast) already configures new modems for residential >>>>> and business customers with IPv6. Especially the TV set top boxes and >>>>> DVRs. >>>>> And our Fiber/MetroE is also IPv6 with IPv4 legacy support. >>>>> >>>>> Mobile Device space is really where the impact could be huge, but >>>>> unless you are serving up web pages and hosting quake tournments from a >>>>> tablet or smartphone I dont see why NAT will be a deal breaker. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Kyle Spencer <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ISPs could solve this problem by deploying IPv6. >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem is, even if they deploy IPv6, they may still NAT mobile >>>>>> devices because it keeps them in a position of control. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 23, 2013 10:34 PM, "Mwirima Byaruhanga" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sanga collins wrote thus on 7/23/13 9:26 PM: >>>>>>> > Hi Benjamin, I see what you mean. That actually is even worse. I >>>>>>> > must admit I am complete spoiled living where I live not having a >>>>>>> > public IP is unthinkable! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm afraid the unthinkable may be upon you soon, get ready. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The American IP address registry (ARIN) is soon depleting its IPv4 >>>>>>> address inventory. Your ISP will not be able to get any more IPv4 >>>>>>> addresses, but will continue growing customers I presume, hence, >>>>>>> more and more NAT and the possibility of losing that unicast IP >>>>>>> address on your gadget for a private address. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course that's assuming that your ISP will not have implemented >>>>>>> IPv6, and even if they do, your gadget needs to support it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> eb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Benjamin Tayehanpour >>>>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > No Sanga, you are thinking of not having static IPs. That can >>>>>>> > be >>>>>>> > alleviated with dynamic DNS services. Not having a *public* IP >>>>>>> > is something entirely different. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I agree with everything Kyle says. The problem ultimately boils >>>>>>> > down to Uganda's not being a democracy. If the government >>>>>>> > operated under threat of expulsion, they would have incentive >>>>>>> > actually to care for the individual citizen. As it stands now, >>>>>>> > the ISPs can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they >>>>>>> > make the government happy by paying homage and taxes. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On 23 July 2013 15:27, sanga collins <[email protected] >>>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I agree with Kyle's points mostly, I think you can get >>>>>>> > around not having a public IP by using Dynamic DNS type >>>>>>> > services, but in the long run it is not the most Ideal >>>>>>> > solution. Having that fat pipe of bandwidth is IMO the most >>>>>>> > crushing aspect. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Peter Atkin >>>>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Hi Kyle____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Very good summary completely concur.. people forget >>>>>>> > that >>>>>>> > each situation (Time, Place and Resources) are often >>>>>>> > different so difference approaches are required, what >>>>>>> > works for one does not mean it will work for the >>>>>>> > other.____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I am also tired of experts that live in bubbles >>>>>>> > completely isolated from other bubble and the real >>>>>>> > world. ____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Kind Regards____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Peter Atkin____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > (C.T.O)____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > cfts.co <http://cfts.co> (u) ltd.____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Get I.T.Right ____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > +256-772-700781 <tel:%2B256-772-700781> | Skype: >>>>>>> > peter2cfu____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > www.cfts.co.ug <http://www.cfts.co/>| location details >>>>>>> > <http://www.cfts.co/contacts.html>| view my profile >>>>>>> > <http://ug.linkedin.com/in/peteratkin>____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > *From:*[email protected] >>>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Kyle >>>>>>> > Spencer >>>>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:38 PM >>>>>>> > *To:* Uganda Linux User Group >>>>>>> > *Subject:* Re: [LUG] Why the Silicon Valleys' of Africa >>>>>>> > will never match the US Silicon Valley____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Hi, >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > This is going to be a bit of an off-topic angry rant, >>>>>>> > but I'll add my two cents here: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I'm really sick of going to tech events and watching >>>>>>> > panels of fly-in's from the World Bank, established >>>>>>> > corporations, or whatever, tell us we need to "think >>>>>>> > bigger" or that we should look at Silicon Valley as >>>>>>> > some >>>>>>> > kind of model to emulate. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > In my opinion this notion is ridiculous, primarily >>>>>>> > because the technology we have access to today is >>>>>>> > fundamentally different than what Silicon Valley had in >>>>>>> > its heyday. It's functionality has been crippled to >>>>>>> > benefit incumbents and prevent disruptive technology: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 1) Nobody has a public IP address. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > While we've bypassed the desktop revolution and jumped >>>>>>> > straight to smart-phones, Internet access is now sold >>>>>>> > by >>>>>>> > mobile operators who NAT everyone's connection. This >>>>>>> > prevents phones from receiving incoming connections >>>>>>> > from >>>>>>> > the outside world. This makes peer-to-peer networking >>>>>>> > nearly impossible and severely limits the potential >>>>>>> > functionality of mobile applications. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > As a result, application developers typically must >>>>>>> > purchase "cloud" services in order to relay data >>>>>>> > between >>>>>>> > their users. Control over the network has become >>>>>>> > centralized and established service providers have >>>>>>> > become gatekeepers. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 2) Data-caps. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Silicon Valley exploded when users moved from AOL, >>>>>>> > CompuServe, Prodigy, and other services -- which sold >>>>>>> > walled-garden access by the "minute" -- to flat-rate >>>>>>> > Internet plans sold by speed (e.g. dial-up, DSL, >>>>>>> > cable). >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Users did not have to make a cost decision every time >>>>>>> > they wanted to try out new (often higher bandwidth) >>>>>>> > services like multi-player gaming, Napster, Shoutcast, >>>>>>> > YouTube, MySpace, or whatever. Thus, new services >>>>>>> > frequently emerged, many exploded in popularity, and >>>>>>> > networks had a huge incentive to reinvest in their >>>>>>> > networks. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > In the wondrous desktop-skipping mobile revolution of >>>>>>> > today, access is sold almost exclusively via >>>>>>> > data-capped >>>>>>> > bundles. Users need to make a cost decision every time >>>>>>> > they do anything on the Internet. Disruptive, often >>>>>>> > high-bandwidth services like YouTube are now an >>>>>>> > impossible proposition because users can't afford to >>>>>>> > use >>>>>>> > the service. Service providers no longer have as much >>>>>>> > incentive to reinvest in their networks. Application >>>>>>> > developers shuffle around small amounts of data between >>>>>>> > users and nothing more. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > In summary, expecting East Africa (or anywhere today) >>>>>>> > to >>>>>>> > emulate Silicon Valley is ridiculous. We can't be the >>>>>>> > same thing; we don't have the same tools. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Regards, >>>>>>> > Kyle Spencer >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Otandeka Simon Peter >>>>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>> > wrote:____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Food for thought..____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > http://www.iddsalim.com/blog/2013/07/08/3-reasons-why-silicon-semenya-kenya-will-never-match-silicon-valley-us/____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > P. ____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing >>>>>>> > e-mails >>>>>>> > to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> > Mailing list settings: >>>>>>> > http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by >>>>>>> > INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted >>>>>>> > them (including attachments if any). The mailing list >>>>>>> > host is not responsible for them in any way.____ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __ __ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __________________________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> > This e-mail is company confidential and may contain >>>>>>> > legally privileged information. >>>>>>> > If you are not the intended recipient, you should not >>>>>>> > copy, distribute, disclose or use the information it >>>>>>> > contains. Please e-mail the sender immediately and >>>>>>> > delete this message from your system. >>>>>>> > Note: e-mails are susceptible to corruption, >>>>>>> > interception and unauthorized amendment; we do not >>>>>>> > accept liability for any such changes, or for their >>>>>>> > consequences. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing >>>>>>> > e-mails >>>>>>> > to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> > Mailing list settings: >>>>>>> > http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by >>>>>>> > INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted >>>>>>> > them (including attachments if any). The mailing list >>>>>>> > host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Sanga M. Collins >>>>>>> > Network Engineering >>>>>>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> > Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>>>>>> > E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails >>>>>>> > to: >>>>>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by >>>>>>> > INFOCOM: >>>>>>> > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted >>>>>>> > them >>>>>>> > (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is >>>>>>> > not >>>>>>> > responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > Mailing list archives: >>>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>> > (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>>> > responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Sanga M. Collins >>>>>>> > Network Engineering >>>>>>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> > Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>>>>>> > E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> > [email protected] >>>>>>> > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>> > (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>>> > responsible for >>>>>>> > them in any way. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>>> responsible for >>>>>>> them in any way. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> >>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> >>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible >>>>>> for >>>>>> them in any way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sanga M. Collins >>>>> Network Engineering >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>>>> E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>> >>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>> >>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>> >>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>>>> any way. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>> >>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>> [email protected] >>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>> >>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>> >>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>>> any way. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sanga M. Collins >>> Network Engineering >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 >>> E- fax: (435) 578 7411 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>> >>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>> [email protected] >>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>> >>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>> >>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>> any way. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >> >> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >> [email protected] >> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >> >> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >> >> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >> any way. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. -- Simon Vass _______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
