Of course in history the lute terminology has changed. And of course you will find dictionaries with confused and confusing translations. And also some of us haven't a clear view on the terminology... and once even at an article of me the picture material has been changed in the last second, but not the commentary...
But: It's the job of all of us to use a coherent terminology. I hope that f.ex. my book gives the correct version for the state of the art. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Instrumente/BuchLt/BuchLt.html The term "double headed French lute" is misleading because this type was not used in France. So I changed to "double headed lute" Sometimes the baroque lute with swan neck was called "theorbo" or "German theorbo". In the today's view it's not correct because the tuning is that of a baroque lute. So we have the princip that the name says also something on the tuning. The "German theorbo" is in the today's view the 14-course continuo instrument with the tuning F G A B C D E F G A d f a d', described by Weiss and Baron. So the combination of German and theorbo says that it's an own tuning and not the normal theorbo tuning. Our terminology should be clear - and sometimes historical terms were not really exact in our today's sense because they had not to call all the instrument types of 300 years with an unmistakable term. > Historically, of course, the term theorbo could also refer to an > archlute. Where and when? Andreas Am 10.07.2009 um 10:48 schrieb David Tayler: > Although I will of course defer to my German colleagues in matters > of native language, > I have used the term for 35 years in Germany with no problems. > If you take a few hundred CDs from the last thirty years you will > find that the term is usually used for archlute. Not always, but > very frequently. > You will also find from the same period that a proportion of these > CDs also conflates the terms theorbo, chitarrone, and archlute, so > there can't be a definite meaning for the terms. > Historically, of course, the term theorbo could also refer to an > archlute. > Naturally, the CDs could be wrong, and they often are in the > disposition of the instruments. > This is understandable, however, since many unabridged German > dictionaries give Erzlaute as a synonym for Bogenlaute (which is > rarely used) and translate it as archlute, not theorbo. > For CDs that are originally in English or French those who rely on > these dictionaries for CD notes and translations thus keep the term > current. > In addition, musicological papers as well as Festival booklets from > major festivals use not only these dictionaries but also the Grove > Dictionary as well, and the Grove defines, rightly of wrongly, > erzlaute as archlute. > > So it could be that there is a difference between the written use > of the word and the spoken use of the word, but of course the word > mainly appears in printed material. > > Respectfully, > dt > > > At 01:16 AM 7/10/2009, you wrote: >> "Jerzy Zak" <[email protected]> schrieb: >> > That reminds me the term rather seldom used nowadays: "teorbierte >> > laute" (or close to that spelling), >> >> It's become part of the history of research. With Pohlmann (ch. 7), >> Theorbenlaute was synonymous to theorbierte Laute. According to his >> definition, Theorbenlauten were lutes with first pegboxes bent >> back and >> second pegboxes attached in the direction of the neck. >> >> If I'm not mistaken, that's rather what we'd call double-headed lutes >> today. >> >> To complete confusion, he added: "Theorbierte Lauten werden auch >> Knickhalslauten genannt, die auf dem Wirbelkasten links und/oder >> rechts >> Aufsaetze fuer die hoechsten und tiefsten Saiten haben." >> Theorbierte Lauten are also called Knickhalslauten (lutes with >> bent-back >> necks), which have riders on their pegboxes on the left and(or on the >> right for the highest or lowest strings. >> >> Back then, I stood in awe, completely puzzled by this sophisticated >> "definition". My, o my. >> >> > the untranslatable to Polish "re-entrant". >> >> It hasn't been appropiately translated to German, either. Some have >> tried ruecklaeufig (downward, falling, katabatic, recurrent, >> retrogressive), but in German that term evokes notions of someone >> running back, and doesn't make clear that the _tuning_ is sort of >> "coming back". >> >> Mathias >> >> > On 2009-07-09, at 22:14, Mathias Rösel wrote: >> > >> > > And btw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archlute is just as >> sweeping >> > > IMHO, >> > > neglecting differences between the liuto attiorbato, the >> arciliuto and >> > > the archlute. >> > > >> > > Someone put a language link to it into >> > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzlaute, but that is misleading. >> The >> > > German term Erzlaute was meant to be generic. >> > > >> > > Mathias >> > > >> > > "Jerzy Zak" <[email protected]> schrieb: >> > >> David, >> > >> Thanks for that. >> > >> >> > >> Besides, you've writen a very interesting comment on the "latest >> > >> semiannual online comparison of video hosting sites >> > > ". I'm absolutely >> > >> not qualified to comment on that, but would love to read >> other's -- >> > >> just to remind it's still "untouched" by other pluckers. >> Perhaps some >> > >> lute exemple >> > > ?? >> > >> >> > >> J >> > >> _____ >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On 2009-07-09, at 20:33, David Tayler wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> Archlute >> > >>> dt >> > >>> >> > >>> At 11:29 AM 7/9/2009, you wrote: >> > >>>> What is an "Erzlaute"? >> > >>>> The other instruments pecified on the page are "organ, >> harpsichord, >> > >>>> violins, cello, guitar, theorbE". >> > >>>> >> > >>>> jz >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken +41 (0)62 771 47 07 [email protected] --
