From: "Franz Mechsner" <[email protected]>
I am sorry that you felt addressed by my not so polite remark - it was
actually a (too) quick reaction to Roman's answer to my original
question. I felt somewhat mistreated by simply getting the message that
all my assumptions on which the question were fallacious, full stopp -
with no further explanations. That style felt like a slap in the face
instead of an answer, telling me mainly how ignorant I am (in infinite
contrast to him) instead of giving me the chance to learn better.
You are not ignorant. You are misled by the current state of historiography,
much like the rest of us.
Maybe I misunderstood his intention. Actually I would very much like to
understand his very interesting statements better and to judge them. I
am an amateur, and having not all the time in the world.
Same here.
that experts might be willing and able to give me some directions, be
it in explanations be it in hints what to read best to get an idea what
is discussed and how to weigh the arguments.
Not all of our experts are reliable.
(I myself am a scientist,
and I often write in popular magazines, give seminars for a general
audience etc. to support that kind of non-expert education which is -
among other things - important for a democratic and broad
culture). Recently I was fascinated by early music, and the lute in
connection, and would like to understand better how our occidental
idiom was formed as well as learn about the history of the lute... I
read this and that so far, with serious interest but, unfortunately,
limited time. So hints are more than welcome.
The hint is that one has to do one's own pondering. And my pondering tells
me that lute has not
descended from oud (like man from ape), but rather that both were born out
of conflation of many different types of lutes, INCLUDING those that were
common in Europe and Asia Minor (Hellenistic, i.e. also European). The
latter did become islamicized later. But that does not give us the
intellectual impertinence to claim that that culture was Arabic, even though
it has become arabicized by early Modern times.
RT
------------------------------------
Dr. Franz Mechsner
Hanse Institute for Advanced Study
Lehmkuhlenbusch 4
D-27753 Delmenhorst/Bremen
GERMANY
E-mail: [1][email protected]
Phone: +49 (0)4221 9160-215
Fax: +49 (0)4221 9160-179
__________________________________________________________________
Von: [email protected] im Auftrag von Daniel Winheld
Gesendet: So 22.11.2009 06:26
An: lute
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Arabian past
>Any explanations? Or am I so ignorant that I am not worth a serious
answer?
Franz, you are perfectly worthy- but this worthless correspondent was
at work today and did not get home until after 9:00 PM, PST. As to
the question, firstly we have to know what Arab music was like at the
time the Oud passed into European hands. We cannot assume that it was
anything like modern Arab music (As Roman pointed out, the oud had
frets way back then) and for that matter we don't even know enough
about EUROPEAN music at that time. Lots of
anthropology/musicology/organology cross-disciplinary matters for
discussion here. By the way, the lute's ancestry has been traced to
pre-Islamic Pakistan; with lutes first going East to China in the 7th
Century AD (Pipa) and then Japan (Biwa)- so the Islamic transmission
is but one step in a multifaceted Global migration. No one, or no
culture, can claim exclusive "ownership". This is just basic
groundwork, of course. Your specific musical questions will
eventually be answered by the professional lutenists and academic
scholars who make this list so rewarding, and worthwhile. Give them a
little time, and I guarantee that it will be discussed to death and
beyond- at least I hope so, and look forward to it.
Dan
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[email protected]
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
