Thanks for the note, Marytn. I agree with you, totally. For the most part, I have played gut exclusively for the past 18 years or so, as the sound is so beautiful, not to mention that it _is_ the way lutes sounded.
ed At 02:01 AM 10/6/2010, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > Dear Anthony, > > This seems a very retrograde step. Surely if we are wishing to hear > something even approaching how the Old Ones sounded we ought to > eschew treble strings which are so very different from what they had. > Clearly gut was generally used for trebles and there's no reason to > suppose their density has changed significantly since then - in short a > material close to gut, if not gut, ought to be our goal for these > strings rather than significantly lower density, and hence thicker (and > plummier sounding), strings. > > Of course it's quite possible these particular players to which you > refer don't wish to try and achieve this sort of sound and quite like > the modern guitar type tone...... > > regards > > M. > --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Anthony Hind <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon? > To: "Edward Martin" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 14:24 > > Dear Ed and All > For the reason you state below : > % > > The density of carbon is so much > > more than gut, therefore a smaller size is appropriate, around a > 0.38 > > or so. Because of the need for a smaller diameter, the sound is > > certainly more sharp sounding. > > > > ed > % > two lutenists on the French list, who have adopted synthetic strings > for their stability, (rather than just for their low cost), and who > are > ready to experiment to achieve the sound they are looking for, have > adopted very low density Titanium Nylon fishing lines for their top > strings, which they claim give a thicker, and therefore, sweeter > warmer > sounding top string for the same tension, compared to high density > KF > carbon (which they use for their Meanes) or even compared to > slightly > higher density nylon. > % > They liked the sound of the old nylgut (with its density close to > gut), > but claimed that it tended to break too easilly (which presumably > has > been resolved with the latest version).. > % > In fact, they were looking for a sound similar to that which is > achieved with titanium nylon guitar strings, but these do not exist > in > diameters suitable for the lute. > It would seem that such a string can be found in a suitable diameter > (0,35 to 0,50) in fishing line, under the name, Nylon Powerline > Titanium; but there is also Asari Falcon titanium G2, which might be > suitable. > (for those interested these are special fishing lines for surf > casting) > % > FranAS:ois Pizette gave the following comparative table of densities > (which I have not checked out): > % > titanium nylon :1.04 > nylon: 1.12 > perlon: 1.22 > nylgut: 1.3 > gut: 1.36 > KF pvf: 1.81 > % > FranAS:ois actually sent me a trial string for my Renaissance lute, > but > I never got round to trying it out, myself. I had just begun > experimenting a Kathedral gut top string at the time, so I passed it > on > to a friend who was using a nylon top string, and I believe he found > the Titanium Nylon quite good, but a little "too sweet". > Nevertheless, > he kept it on for a time, so it may not have been at all bad to his > taste. > % > As you say, string density determines the diameter, and presumably, > all > things being equal, 'thinner than nylon' could lead to a sharper > tone, > while thicker could lead to a sweeter one. However, FranAS:ois > Pizette > claimed he heard the carbon top string as "colder", and the titanium > nylon as "warmer". > Nevertheless, relative top string thickness also plays a role in > terms > of feel and playability. It is not easy to "dig into" a thin string, > although an over thick string could possibly become too damped. > % > A comparison between Alliance Savrez carbon and Addario > Titanium-nylon > can be heard here on a Ukelele in this You/Tube video (if you have > the > patience, as there are two other strings tested): > [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY > % > One player's comments on this test seem interesting. He says it is > more > the feel of the Titanium Nylon he prefers than the sound difference > with the Savarez: > "You were the one that goti>>? me into Savarez strings, though I > still > prefer my D'Addrios only because they are thicker and give me a > little > more "feel" under my fingers." (a Ukele player) > % > Is this not why some Baroque lutenist gut users prefer a lower > diapason > (say 392 over 415, with the same tension). This also gives a > thicker > top string, with more material to "dig into"? > % > I think this question may be just as interesting for gut as for > synthetics users. > While personally, I have been experimenting with the sound and feel > of > gut in relation to hypotheses about historic strings, I am happy to > report on these synthetic string user's experiments, attempting to > achieve a better sound and playability with their choice of strings. > Best regards > Anthony > ---- Message d'origine ---- > >De : "Edward Martin" <[[email protected]> > >A : "Edward Mast" <[3][email protected]>; > > "Roman Turovsky" <[4][email protected]> > >Objet : [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? > >Date : 04/10/2010 15:10:06 CEST > >Copie A : "Paul Kieffer" <[5][email protected]>; > > "EUGENE BRAIG IV" <[6][email protected]>; > > [7][email protected] > > > >No, it would have too much tension. The density of carbon is so > much > > more than gut, therefore a smaller size is appropriate, around a > 0.38 > > or so. Because of the need for a smaller diameter, the sound is > > certainly more sharp sounding. > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:50 AM 10/4/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > > >The .40-.41 mm diameter line sounds like it would be suitable for > > >the top course, yes? > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: [[email protected] > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > [2][9]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > [3][10]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > [4][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- > References > 1. [12]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY > 2. [13]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > 3. [14]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > 4. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > >References > > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY > 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 5. > http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > 9. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > 10. http://www.myspace.com/edslute > 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY > 13. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > 14. http://www.myspace.com/edslute > 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [email protected] voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
