Well - that's your opinion.
MH
urovsky <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Roman Turovsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon?
To: "Edward Martin" <[email protected]>, "Anthony Hind"
<[email protected]>, "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, 6 October, 2010, 14:05
I generally don't understand Anthony.
The acoustic differences between nylon and carbon are negligible from a
distance of 2 meters anyway, and gut sounds like washtub-bass outside
that radius.
RT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson"
<[1][email protected]>
To: "Edward Martin" <[[email protected]>; "Anthony Hind"
<[3][email protected]>; "Roman Turovsky" <[4][email protected]>
Cc: <[5][email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 8:57 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon?
>
>
> But, as I understand Anthony, they are not using advocating
'carbon'
> strings but something even less dense than modern nylon!
>
> MH
> --- On Wed, 6/10/10, Roman Turovsky <[6][email protected]>
wrote:
>
> From: Roman Turovsky <[7][email protected]>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon?
> To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[8][email protected]>, "Edward
Martin"
> <[[email protected]>, "Anthony Hind"
<[10][email protected]>
> Cc: [11][email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, 6 October, 2010, 12:40
>
> From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1][12][email protected]>
> > This seems a very retrograde step. Surely if we are wishing to
hear
> > something even approaching how the Old Ones sounded we ought to
> > eschew treble strings which are so very different from what
they
> had.
> Quite a few of the Current Ones far exceed the Old Ones,
methinks...
> > Clearly gut was generally used for trebles and there's no
reason to
> > suppose their density has changed significantly since then - in
> short a
> > material close to gut, if not gut, ought to be our goal for
these
> > strings rather than significantly lower density, and hence
thicker
> (and
> > plummier sounding), strings.
> Or thuddier ans squeekier, to some.
> > Of course it's quite possible these particular players to which
you
> > refer don't wish to try and achieve this sort of sound and
quite
> like
> > the modern guitar type tone......
> There is nothing "guitar type" in the tone of carbon on lutes.
> So until the improvement of gut technology that would some day
assure
> stability, intonation and economic justification we'd be using
carbon.
> RT
> > --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Anthony Hind <[2][13][email protected]>
wrote:
> >
> > From: Anthony Hind <[3][14][email protected]>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon?
> > To: "Edward Martin" <[4][[email protected]>
> > Cc: [5][16][email protected]
> > Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 14:24
> >
> > Dear Ed and All
> > For the reason you state below :
> > %
> > > The density of carbon is so much
> > > more than gut, therefore a smaller size is appropriate,
around
> a
> > 0.38
> > > or so. Because of the need for a smaller diameter, the
sound
> is
> > > certainly more sharp sounding.
> > >
> > > ed
> > %
> > two lutenists on the French list, who have adopted synthetic
> strings
> > for their stability, (rather than just for their low cost),
and
> who
> > are
> > ready to experiment to achieve the sound they are looking
for,
> have
> > adopted very low density Titanium Nylon fishing lines for
their
> top
> > strings, which they claim give a thicker, and therefore,
sweeter
> > warmer
> > sounding top string for the same tension, compared to high
> density
> > KF
> > carbon (which they use for their Meanes) or even compared to
> > slightly
> > higher density nylon.
> > %
> > They liked the sound of the old nylgut (with its density
close
> to
> > gut),
> > but claimed that it tended to break too easilly (which
> presumably
> > has
> > been resolved with the latest version)..
> > %
> > In fact, they were looking for a sound similar to that which
is
> > achieved with titanium nylon guitar strings, but these do
not
> exist
> > in
> > diameters suitable for the lute.
> > It would seem that such a string can be found in a suitable
> diameter
> > (0,35 to 0,50) in fishing line, under the name, Nylon
Powerline
> > Titanium; but there is also Asari Falcon titanium G2, which
> might be
> > suitable.
> > (for those interested these are special fishing lines for
surf
> > casting)
> > %
> > FranAS:ois Pizette gave the following comparative table of
> densities
> > (which I have not checked out):
> > %
> > titanium nylon :1.04
> > nylon: 1.12
> > perlon: 1.22
> > nylgut: 1.3
> > gut: 1.36
> > KF pvf: 1.81
> > %
> > FranAS:ois actually sent me a trial string for my
Renaissance
> lute,
> > but
> > I never got round to trying it out, myself. I had just begun
> > experimenting a Kathedral gut top string at the time, so I
> passed it
> > on
> > to a friend who was using a nylon top string, and I believe
he
> found
> > the Titanium Nylon quite good, but a little "too sweet".
> > Nevertheless,
> > he kept it on for a time, so it may not have been at all bad
to
> his
> > taste.
> > %
> > As you say, string density determines the diameter, and
> presumably,
> > all
> > things being equal, 'thinner than nylon' could lead to a
sharper
> > tone,
> > while thicker could lead to a sweeter one. However,
FranAS:ois
> > Pizette
> > claimed he heard the carbon top string as "colder", and the
> titanium
> > nylon as "warmer".
> > Nevertheless, relative top string thickness also plays a
role in
> > terms
> > of feel and playability. It is not easy to "dig into" a thin
> string,
> > although an over thick string could possibly become too
damped.
> > %
> > A comparison between Alliance Savrez carbon and Addario
> > Titanium-nylon
> > can be heard here on a Ukelele in this You/Tube video (if
you
> have
> > the
> > patience, as there are two other strings tested):
> > [1][1][6][17]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> > %
> > One player's comments on this test seem interesting. He says
it
> is
> > more
> > the feel of the Titanium Nylon he prefers than the sound
> difference
> > with the Savarez:
> > "You were the one that goti>>? me into Savarez strings,
though I
> > still
> > prefer my D'Addrios only because they are thicker and give
me a
> > little
> > more "feel" under my fingers." (a Ukele player)
> > %
> > Is this not why some Baroque lutenist gut users prefer a
lower
> > diapason
> > (say 392 over 415, with the same tension). This also gives
a
> > thicker
> > top string, with more material to "dig into"?
> > %
> > I think this question may be just as interesting for gut as
for
> > synthetics users.
> > While personally, I have been experimenting with the sound
and
> feel
> > of
> > gut in relation to hypotheses about historic strings, I am
happy
> to
> > report on these synthetic string user's experiments,
attempting
> to
> > achieve a better sound and playability with their choice of
> strings.
> > Best regards
> > Anthony
> > ---- Message d'origine ----
> > >De : "Edward Martin" <[2][7][[email protected]>
> > >A : "Edward Mast" <[3][8][19][email protected]>;
> > > "Roman Turovsky" <[4][9][20][email protected]>
> > >Objet : [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings?
> > >Date : 04/10/2010 15:10:06 CEST
> > >Copie A : "Paul Kieffer"
> <[5][10][21][email protected]>;
> > > "EUGENE BRAIG IV" <[6][11][22][email protected]>;
> > > [7][12][23][email protected]
> > >
> > >No, it would have too much tension. The density of carbon
is so
> > much
> > > more than gut, therefore a smaller size is appropriate,
around
> a
> > 0.38
> > > or so. Because of the need for a smaller diameter, the
sound
> is
> > > certainly more sharp sounding.
> > >
> > > ed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 07:50 AM 10/4/2010, Edward Mast wrote:
> > > >The .40-.41 mm diameter line sounds like it would be
suitable
> for
> > > >the top course, yes?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Edward Martin
> > > 2817 East 2nd Street
> > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812
> > > e-mail: [8][13][[email protected]
> > > voice: (218) 728-1202
> > >
> [2][9][14][25]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref
=name
> > > [3][10][15][26]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > >
> [4][11][16][27]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.ht
ml
> > >
> > --
> > References
> > 1. [12][17][28]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> > 2.
> [13][18][29]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=n
ame
> > 3. [14][19][30]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> > 4.
> [15][20][31]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.htm
l
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [21][32]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> > 2.
> [22][33]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to...@gamutstring
s.com
> > 3.
> [23][34]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
om
> > 4.
> [24][35]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=r.turov...@ver
izon.net
> > 5.
> >
> [25][36]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul.nicholas.
kieffer@
> gmail.com
> > 6.
[26][37]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> > 7.
> [27][38]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
uth.edu
> > 8.
> [28][39]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to...@gamutstring
s.com
> > 9.
[29][40]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> > 10. [30][41]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> > 11.
[31][42]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > 12. [32][43]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> > 13.
[33][44]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> > 14. [34][45]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> > 15.
[35][46]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[47]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
.uk
> 2.
[48]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 3.
[49]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 4.
[50]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 5.
[51]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 6. [52]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> 7.
[53]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 8.
[54]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 9.
[55]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 10.
[56]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul.nicholas.kieffer@
gmail.com
> 11. [57]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 12.
[58]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 13.
[59]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 14. [60]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> 15. [61]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> 16. [62]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 17. [63]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> 18. [64]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> 19. [65]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> 20. [66]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 21. [67]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> 22.
[68]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 23.
[69]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 24.
[70]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 25.
[71]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul.nicholas.kieffer@
gmail.com
> 26. [72]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 27.
[73]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 28.
[74]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
> 29. [75]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> 30. [76]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> 31. [77]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 32. [78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
> 33. [79]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> 34. [80]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> 35. [81]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
14. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
15. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
16. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
17. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
18. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
19. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
20. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
21.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
22. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
23. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
24. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
25. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
26. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
27. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
28. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
29. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
30. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
31. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
32. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
33. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
34. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
35. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
36. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul.nicholas.kieffer@
37. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
38. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
39. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
40. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
41. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
42. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
43. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
44. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
45. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
46. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
47. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
48. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
49. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
50. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
51. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
52. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
53. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
54. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
55. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
56.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
57. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
58. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
59. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
60. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
61. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
62. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
63. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
64. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
65. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
66. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
67. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
68. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
69. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
70. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
71.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
72. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
73. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
74. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
75. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
76. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
77. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
78. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY
79. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
80. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
81. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
