Just to be contrary, I should point out that we have no idea how lutes sounded. Admittedly, carbon fiber was not all that prevalent in the renaissance.
Joseph Mayes On 10/6/10 7:37 AM, "Edward Martin" <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for the note, Marytn. I agree with you, totally. For the > most part, I have played gut exclusively for the past 18 years or so, > as the sound is so beautiful, not to mention that it _is_ the way > lutes sounded. > > > ed > > > > > At 02:01 AM 10/6/2010, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > >> Dear Anthony, >> >> This seems a very retrograde step. Surely if we are wishing to hear >> something even approaching how the Old Ones sounded we ought to >> eschew treble strings which are so very different from what they had. >> Clearly gut was generally used for trebles and there's no reason to >> suppose their density has changed significantly since then - in short a >> material close to gut, if not gut, ought to be our goal for these >> strings rather than significantly lower density, and hence thicker (and >> plummier sounding), strings. >> >> Of course it's quite possible these particular players to which you >> refer don't wish to try and achieve this sort of sound and quite like >> the modern guitar type tone...... >> >> regards >> >> M. >> --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Anthony Hind <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]> >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon? >> To: "Edward Martin" <[email protected]> >> Cc: [email protected] >> Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 14:24 >> >> Dear Ed and All >> For the reason you state below : >> % >>> The density of carbon is so much >>> more than gut, therefore a smaller size is appropriate, around a >> 0.38 >>> or so. Because of the need for a smaller diameter, the sound is >>> certainly more sharp sounding. >>> >>> ed >> % >> two lutenists on the French list, who have adopted synthetic strings >> for their stability, (rather than just for their low cost), and who >> are >> ready to experiment to achieve the sound they are looking for, have >> adopted very low density Titanium Nylon fishing lines for their top >> strings, which they claim give a thicker, and therefore, sweeter >> warmer >> sounding top string for the same tension, compared to high density >> KF >> carbon (which they use for their Meanes) or even compared to >> slightly >> higher density nylon. >> % >> They liked the sound of the old nylgut (with its density close to >> gut), >> but claimed that it tended to break too easilly (which presumably >> has >> been resolved with the latest version).. >> % >> In fact, they were looking for a sound similar to that which is >> achieved with titanium nylon guitar strings, but these do not exist >> in >> diameters suitable for the lute. >> It would seem that such a string can be found in a suitable diameter >> (0,35 to 0,50) in fishing line, under the name, Nylon Powerline >> Titanium; but there is also Asari Falcon titanium G2, which might be >> suitable. >> (for those interested these are special fishing lines for surf >> casting) >> % >> FranAS:ois Pizette gave the following comparative table of densities >> (which I have not checked out): >> % >> titanium nylon :1.04 >> nylon: 1.12 >> perlon: 1.22 >> nylgut: 1.3 >> gut: 1.36 >> KF pvf: 1.81 >> % >> FranAS:ois actually sent me a trial string for my Renaissance lute, >> but >> I never got round to trying it out, myself. I had just begun >> experimenting a Kathedral gut top string at the time, so I passed it >> on >> to a friend who was using a nylon top string, and I believe he found >> the Titanium Nylon quite good, but a little "too sweet". >> Nevertheless, >> he kept it on for a time, so it may not have been at all bad to his >> taste. >> % >> As you say, string density determines the diameter, and presumably, >> all >> things being equal, 'thinner than nylon' could lead to a sharper >> tone, >> while thicker could lead to a sweeter one. However, FranAS:ois >> Pizette >> claimed he heard the carbon top string as "colder", and the titanium >> nylon as "warmer". >> Nevertheless, relative top string thickness also plays a role in >> terms >> of feel and playability. It is not easy to "dig into" a thin string, >> although an over thick string could possibly become too damped. >> % >> A comparison between Alliance Savrez carbon and Addario >> Titanium-nylon >> can be heard here on a Ukelele in this You/Tube video (if you have >> the >> patience, as there are two other strings tested): >> [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY >> % >> One player's comments on this test seem interesting. He says it is >> more >> the feel of the Titanium Nylon he prefers than the sound difference >> with the Savarez: >> "You were the one that goti>>? me into Savarez strings, though I >> still >> prefer my D'Addrios only because they are thicker and give me a >> little >> more "feel" under my fingers." (a Ukele player) >> % >> Is this not why some Baroque lutenist gut users prefer a lower >> diapason >> (say 392 over 415, with the same tension). This also gives a >> thicker >> top string, with more material to "dig into"? >> % >> I think this question may be just as interesting for gut as for >> synthetics users. >> While personally, I have been experimenting with the sound and feel >> of >> gut in relation to hypotheses about historic strings, I am happy to >> report on these synthetic string user's experiments, attempting to >> achieve a better sound and playability with their choice of strings. >> Best regards >> Anthony >> ---- Message d'origine ---- >>> De : "Edward Martin" <[[email protected]> >>> A : "Edward Mast" <[3][email protected]>; >>> "Roman Turovsky" <[4][email protected]> >>> Objet : [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? >>> Date : 04/10/2010 15:10:06 CEST >>> Copie A : "Paul Kieffer" <[5][email protected]>; >>> "EUGENE BRAIG IV" <[6][email protected]>; >>> [7][email protected] >>> >>> No, it would have too much tension. The density of carbon is so >> much >>> more than gut, therefore a smaller size is appropriate, around a >> 0.38 >>> or so. Because of the need for a smaller diameter, the sound is >>> certainly more sharp sounding. >>> >>> ed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:50 AM 10/4/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >>>> The .40-.41 mm diameter line sounds like it would be suitable for >>>> the top course, yes? >>> >>> >>> >>> Edward Martin >>> 2817 East 2nd Street >>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >>> e-mail: [[email protected] >>> voice: (218) 728-1202 >>> [2][9]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >>> [3][10]http://www.myspace.com/edslute >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> [4][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >> -- >> References >> 1. [12]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY >> 2. [13]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >> 3. [14]http://www.myspace.com/edslute >> 4. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY >> 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 5. >> http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] >> 9. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >> 10. http://www.myspace.com/edslute >> 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGK8pXqr9yY >> 13. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >> 14. http://www.myspace.com/edslute >> 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [email protected] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > >
