Sorry, read "options" instead of "oprtions"... ;-( ================================= == En réponse au message du 24-11-2010, 15:50:00 ==
>Fine, Peter, but 34 is another story altogether, isn't it ? "La Compagna", >perfect, but not "La Sosia" ;-). The contrapuntal oprtions in the introductory >motive are slightly, but significantly different. It seems impossible to me to >adopt the same rhythmical symetry (semibreve, quarter, quarter) in the >introduction and its answer in 33; I feel that Arthur's option, comforted by >the English version in Cambridge Add Ms 3056, is more satisfactory and >preserves the coherence in the imitation. But of course, that's only my >twopence... :-) >Among the recordings I could put my hands on, Paul O'Dette, Chris Wilson, >Anthony Bailes, Massimo Lonardi, Hopkinson Smith share this opinion and all >choose to play the "rectified" version (3 semi breves at the opening), perhaps >it is not just a hasard ? > >Best, > >Jean-Marie >================================= > >== En réponse au message du 24-11-2010, 14:25:10 == > >> We should look also at the next piece in the Siena manuscript, La >> Compagna, which opens with the same theme and rhythm, suggesting that >> number 33 was written as intended, and doesn't need to be changed. >> That's what I play...... :) >> >> P >> On 24 November 2010 12:56, Jean-Marie Poirier >> <[1][email protected]> wrote: >> >> True, Peter. The Siena doesn't use the same rhythm in the answering >> statement. Arthur Ness gives the exact Siena version in tab and his >> transcription suggests a change to make both opening statements >> rhythmically identical. Moreover there is a version of this very >> Ricercar in an English manuscript, Cambridge Univ. Library, Add. Ms >> 3056, which changes the Siena version to make both statement >> conform, like Arthur suggested in his transcription. That's what I >> play, and it would be interesting to have Arthur's opinion on >> that... >> >> All the best, >> Jean-Marie >> ================================= >> >> == En reponse au message du 24-11-2010, 13:21:18 == >> >> > >> > Looking at this piece in the Siena manuscript, the rhythm for the >> > opening statement is not the same as in the answering statements. >> So >> > there's certainly room for doubt. >> > >> > I think the opening statement may have been 'corrected' in the Ness >> > edition (I don't have it here to check). However, since several >> > different rhythms are used for this motif, changing one of them >> doesn't >> > make the counterpoint any more uniform. Let it stand, and enjoy >> the >> > diversity! >> > >> > P >> > On 24 November 2010 10:33, Jean-Marie Poirier >> > <[1][2][email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Same argument ! Listen to the counterpoint... >> > Best, >> > JM >> > ================================= >> > == En reponse au message du 24-11-2010, 11:27:59 == >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >correction: Sorry, I meant the values of the second and third note >> of >> > the >> > >first motif respectively the first bar in general... >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- >> > >From: "Susanne Herre" <[2][3][email protected]> >> > >To: "Lute List" <[3][4][email protected]> >> > >Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:49 AM >> > >Subject: [LUTE] Francesco da Milano - Ness 33 >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> Dear lute lovers, >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> What are your opinions about the beginning of Francesco da >> Milano >> > - >> > >> Fantasia Ness 33 regarding the note value of the first note of >> the >> > >> first motif? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> My thoughts at the moment are that maybe it happened like >> this: >> > >> Francesco wrote the piece without bar lines. When they tried >> to >> > print >> > >> it with bar lines it was not possible or not common to print >> only >> > an >> > >> upbeat / a bar of half length. So they changed the rhythm to a >> > very >> > >> common pattern so the motif could now fit into one bar. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Could that be possible? Maybe that happened with other pieces >> as >> > well? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Or maybe Francesco "had to" compose it like this because no >> piece >> > like >> > >> a fantasia or ricercar would start with an upbeat? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Best wishes, >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Susanne >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > >> [4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > >> > > >> > >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ----------------- >> > >Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par >> l'anti-virus >> > mail. >> > >Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. >> > > >> > > >> > ======================================== >> > >> > -- >> > Peter Martin >> > 24 The Mount St Georges >> > Second Avenue >> > Newcastle under Lyme >> > ST5 8RB >> > tel: 0044 (0)1782 662089 >> > mob: 0044 (0)7971 232614 >> > [5][6][email protected] >> > >> > -- >> > >> >References >> > >> > 1. mailto:[7][email protected] >> > 2. mailto:[8][email protected] >> > 3. mailto:[9][email protected] >> > 4. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > 5. mailto:[11][email protected] >> > >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------------- >> >> >Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus >> mail. >> >Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. >> > >> > >> ======================================== >> >> -- >> Peter Martin >> 24 The Mount St Georges >> Second Avenue >> Newcastle under Lyme >> ST5 8RB >> tel: 0044 (0)1782 662089 >> mob: 0044 (0)7971 232614 >> [12][email protected] >> >> -- >> >>References >> >> 1. mailto:[email protected] >> 2. mailto:[email protected] >> 3. mailto:[email protected] >> 4. mailto:[email protected] >> 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 6. mailto:[email protected] >> 7. mailto:[email protected] >> 8. mailto:[email protected] >> 9. mailto:[email protected] >> 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 11. mailto:[email protected] >> 12. mailto:[email protected] >> > >======================================== > > ========================================
