Hello all,
I would caution a would-be composer not to confuse "idiomatic" with "what
was done back then." This reminds me of my first encounter with a lute of my
own. I'd begun by playing some Dowland on my guitar with the third string
tuned down a half step, reading from guitar transcriptions in modern notation.
When I got my first actual lute I continued to play these guitar transcriptions
with all the fingering marks, string indications, shifts, etc.
When I finally got proficient enough in reading tablature to look up facsimiles
of the pieces I'd been playing I was shocked - everything was in low positions!
Ironically, the guitar version was actually much more faithful to the
conception of a piece as a multi-voiced polyphonic composition. In order to be
musically more correct, the arranger had included numerous shifts to high
positions and finger contortions to remain faithful to the integrity of the
parts. Dowland, like most lute composers, had been quite content to play fast
and loose with this concept. He frequently did things like cutting off a
sustained voice if a note or two from another part needed to be played on that
course. I believe Dowland was after the resonance possible in low positions
even if that meant fudging the voice leading. And let's face it, the Dowland
versions were actually easier to play. That practicality must have been a
concern. And yet the modern guitar
arrangement was entirely satisfying for the listener, too.
This raises a couple of issues. Was the guitar version unidiomatic even if
it is really musically more strict? For the HIP performer, yes. Dowland wrote
it that way, so you have to do it. For the modern composer, I would answer
emphatically no. So what if Dowland did it that way?
Chris
Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
--- On Tue, 3/29/11, Martin Shepherd <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Martin Shepherd <[email protected]>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: a modern lute duet by Gilbert Isbin
> To: "Lute List" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 10:35 AM
> Hi All,
>
> A few thoughts off the top of my head (not as far up as it
> was):
>
> I would say to a composer - listen carefully to the sound
> of a proper lute strung with gut strings. You will
> hear the difference between that and the modern guitar.
>
> Also, bear in mind that although pushing boundaries can be
> interesting, the lute is historically quite limited in range
> - in terms of the fingerboard, there are only eight tied
> frets, after that you're up in the gods. Unless you're
> writing for baroque lute of course, in which case you've got
> a couple of extra frets.
>
> Think about octaves. They were usually ignored by the
> intabulators of old, but they were there - so when
> composing, you really have to think about what kind of
> octave doubling (however subtle) is acceptable.
>
> Temperament is another issue. The old guys mave have
> used some approximation to equal temperament, but that
> doesn't necessarily equate to total freedom in terms of
> modulation, or the way the open strings of the instrument
> resonate. Some notes are more equal than others.
>
> Special effects (harmonics, tapping the soundboard, etc)
> are not, as far as we know, part of historical lute
> technique. It is therefore a matter of taste whether
> to extend the "normal" technique of the instrument in
> various ways, but there is always a danger of making it
> sound like something it isn't.
>
> Historically most lutenists were obsessed by trying to
> reproduce vocal polyphony. Perhaps the organ has more
> in common with the lute than the guitar....
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On 29/03/2011 12:41, Ron Andrico wrote:
> > Stephen:
> > Good question and good
> points. I've encountered similar issues from
> > both angles - as a composer
> devising music that is idiomatic for a
> > given instrument and as a
> lutenist asked to turn ideas composed at the
> > keyboard into lute music.
> > As far as the difference
> between music composed for guitar and for
> > lute, I would have to say that
> the primary factors are texture and
> > decay. Guitar can be a
> very sensitive instrument and, in the hands of
> > a sensitive player, can sound
> very light and transparent. But the lute
> > trumps guitar for transparency
> and light texture hands down. A
> > guitarist can't help but allow
> a single note to bloom with intent and
> > purpose. A lutenist
> knows that note is going to decay very soon and
> > had better manage every
> millisecond.
> > I was once given a set of
> songs on texts by Walt Whitman, written by a
> > very good composer. She
> had no idea how the lute worked but assumed
> > that if she made the
> accompaniments sparse, that the lute should be
> > able to manage. After
> the better part of a day of jointly massaging
> > the keyboard
> accompaniments, narrowing the upper range and creating
> > more idiomatic use of
> cross-string figures, I wound up taking the bare
> > outline of her ideas and
> re-composing the music to fit the instrument.
> > Ron Andrico
> > www.mignarda.com
> > > Date: Tue, 29 Mar
> 2011 12:07:44 +0100
> > > CC: [email protected]
> > > From: [email protected]
> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re:
> a modern lute duet by Gilbert Isbin
> > >
> > > This reminds me of
> a question raised when I wrote a piece supposedly
> > for lute (6 course) ages ago.
> I showed it to a lutenist who said it was
> > really guitar music. Well, I'd
> written it using a guitar (tuned
> > appropriately of course)
> having no lute to use. But it seems to me that
> > its more a question of the
> musical style, my piece being a sort of
> > quasi-classical sonata type of
> thing.
> > > So what would the
> general understanding be, how non-traditional
> > musical style/content affects
> whether a piece would be considered
> > lute-like? Are there really,
> subtle aspects of how the instrument
> > works, differently from guitar
> that would trump these...in which case
> > how would a non-lutenist ever
> write for lute?
> > > (Aside - I've just
> had a major piece written for guitar by a
> > non-player, some of which is a
> little challenging and pushes the
> > boundaries...which is rather
> the point to a degree?)
> > >
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stuart Walsh
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gilbert
> Isbin has written some lute duets, "3 contemporary lute
> > duets"
> > > >
> published by the Lute Society, 2009. Here is a go at one of
> them:
> > > > 'And
> Autumn Came'.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To get on or off
> this list see list information at
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > --
> >
>
>
>
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