Yes, of course jazz standards will work on lute, either in old tuning
or in d-minor tuning. The point in playing effective jazz guitar is
not just playing triad harmonies (always altered) but voice leading.
Listen to old recordings by Dick McDonough and the player who took up
where he left off, George Van Eps. The latter spent his entire
productive life demonstrating that improvisation with good voice
leading in four parts was not only possible but the standard by which
idiomatic playing translates into good music you want to hear. That is
why playing - and writing - polyphony is the best way to wrap your head
around how any music fits on the lute. Face it, guitar is easier to
play, and block chords are simpler to understand. This is why so many
guitarists seem to gravitate toward music for baroque lute with its
simpler treble - bass construction.
Ron Andrico
www.mignarda.com
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:25 -0700
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; dwinh...@comcast.net
> From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: a modern lute duet by Gilbert Isbin
>
> Dan,
>
> Lately for my own amusement and to force myself to really get to know
the fingerboard, I've been making arrangements of jazz standards for
baroque lute. I've been pleasantly surprised to find that most jazz
harmonies fit very, very well on the fingerboard in d-minor tuning. No
doubt this is because even the thorniest jazz chord is built on stacked
thirds and d-minor tuning has thirds a-plenty. There is usually more
than enough room to do a nice harmonic voicing plus melody, whereas on
guitar one often has to compromise quite a bit. (Which compromises are
made is part of the appeal of listening to a true jazz guitar master.)
I've found that Jobim works particularly well on b-lute. Now, those
diatonic basses are another matter...
>
> This is obviously a use for the instrument which was never foreseen
by the olden ones. (If anyone has Weiss's arrangement of "How
Insensitive," please let me know.) Sometimes they involve patterns to
which my poor fingers are totally unaccustomed, but if it works, can we
say it is unidiomatic or non-lute-like?
>
> Chris
>
> P.S. Should I have posted this to the baroque lute brazilian jazz
list?
>
>
> Christopher Wilke
> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
> www.christopherwilke.com
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, Daniel Winheld <dwinh...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Daniel Winheld <dwinh...@comcast.net>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: a modern lute duet by Gilbert Isbin
> > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:11 PM
> > Excellent discussion- as to modern
> > classical guitar "vs" renaissance
> > lute; some exchanges work, some don't. I've been testing
> > these waters
> > very intensely since getting a new 8 course from Dan
> > Larson.
> > Unbelievably resonant instrument, depth of response beyond
> > anything
> > I've ever owned or played previously. The Villa-Lobos Etude
> > #1 is a
> > great arpeggio study for thumb-index alternation, either
> > thumb out or
> > in; but I would never play it on the lute in concert. A
> > surprising
> > number of Villa-Lobos' other guitar works do sound good on
> > this
> > particular lute (differences in individual instruments can
> > affect
> > what works/doesn't work almost as much as different species
> > of
> > instrument) -and of course, as Martin notes, you run right
> > off the
> > rails technically with many pieces. But it's good training
> > to dance
> > one's way right up to the sound hole playing the works that
> > test &
> > extend the lute's limits, but don't quite exceed it.
> >
> > All technical stumbling blocks resolved, it seems to still
> > be a
> > "cultural" thing; the European lute family is and no doubt
> > will
> > always be- for the most part- a back-from-the-dead, loving
> > retrieval
> > of our nearly lost instrumental musical heritage, redolent
> > of
> > particular times and places, not mention musical-social
> > associations.
> > In our minds, at least. One violates- or just pushes- these
> > important
> > values/associations very carefully. Again, for my own
> > amusement, I
> > have found that five of the dozen or so guitar arrangements
> > of Astor
> > Piazzolla sound brilliant on the lute; actually even better
> > in some
> > ways. (Lute sound- even with all gut stringing- cuts like
> > an arrow
> > vs. guitar sound- smashes through like a bullet. Perfect
> > for Tango)
> > -but I may never perform them in concert. A relevant
> > and important
> > point; none of these works by Piazzolla were actually
> > written for
> > guitar- they have been played on everything from solo
> > bandoneon,
> > guitar, or piano, to quintets and full orchestrations.
> > Music of a
> > certain universal plasticity (like so much of Bach's suites
> > &
> > partitas) is fair game for many different modes of
> > presentation.
> >
> > But what "should" be the lute's cultural range-
> > technical/sonic range
> > being easily quantifiable- is a delicate, thorny aspect of
> > this
> > discussion.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Hi All,
> > >
> > >A few thoughts off the top of my head (not as far up as
> > it was):
> > >
> > >I would say to a composer - listen carefully to the
> > sound of a
> > >proper lute strung with gut strings. You will
> > hear the difference
> > >between that and the modern guitar.
> > >
> > >Also, bear in mind that although pushing boundaries can
> > be
> > >interesting, the lute is historically quite limited in
> > range - in
> > >terms of the fingerboard, there are only eight tied
> > frets, after
> > >that you're up in the gods. Unless you're writing
> > for baroque lute
> > >of course, in which case you've got a couple of extra
> > frets.
> > >
> > >Think about octaves. They were usually ignored by
> > the intabulators
> > >of old, but they were there - so when composing, you
> > really have to
> > >think about what kind of octave doubling (however
> > subtle) is
> > >acceptable.
> > >
> > >Temperament is another issue. The old guys mave
> > have used some
> > >approximation to equal temperament, but that doesn't
> > necessarily
> > >equate to total freedom in terms of modulation, or the
> > way the open
> > >strings of the instrument resonate. Some notes
> > are more equal than
> > >others.
> > >
> > >Special effects (harmonics, tapping the soundboard,
> > etc) are not, as
> > >far as we know, part of historical lute
> > technique. It is therefore
> > >a matter of taste whether to extend the "normal"
> > technique of the
> > >instrument in various ways, but there is always a
> > danger of making
> > >it sound like something it isn't.
> > >
> > >Historically most lutenists were obsessed by trying to
> > reproduce
> > >vocal polyphony. Perhaps the organ has more in
> > common with the lute
> > >than the guitar....
> > >
> > >Best wishes,
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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