Hi Martin, Not quite an atheist myself, but certainly agnostic, I still love the (musical) trappings of religion and certainly want some of my favourites played at my funeral.
You're right about the Catholic church in the UK going 'happy-clappy'. If you want a really 'high' service a top-of-the-range Anglican church is the place to go - certainly the case in Scotland (and I say that as somebody brought up in the presbyterian tradition). Bill From: Martin Shepherd <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012, 15:23 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers I was brought up in the Church of England, and left it when I was about 13. But my interest in music was, I think, engendered by standing alongside my father in church listening to him sing the bass part while everybody else was singing the top line. He knew the parts by heart, but alas it is rare to get a hymn book with music in it these days. I was horrified when I discovered (quite recently) that the Catholics are almost ahead of the Anglicans when it comes to abandoning proper music and going "happy-clappy". Though an atheist, I still love to go to a sung Evensong in one of our cathedrals. I look forward to my eldest son Francis starting his Choral Scholarship at Merton College, Oxford, where he will be singing services three times a week, Byrd, Gibbons, Tomkins, Parry, etc etc. In some places, the traditions are still alive.... Best wishes, Martin On 14/03/2012 13:36, Edward Martin wrote: > Interesting concept. Yes, many churches have abandoned their old > beautiful music, in favor of this guitar strumming, poorly composed, > boring music. > > This trend of abandoning art music, in favor of mediocrity with the > idea that it appeals to the masses, keeps me away. > > ed > > > > > > At 07:37 AM 3/14/2012, [1][email protected] wrote: >> Chris, >> >> the concept is so well expressed.. >> >> Donatella >> >> ----Messaggio >> originale---- >> Da: [2][email protected] >> Data: 14/03/2012 13.29 >> A: >> <[3][email protected]>, "[4][email protected]"<[5][email protected]> >> Cc: >> <[6][email protected]> >> Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers >> >> >> Donatella, >> In America the change in music came much earlier, in >> many places >> preceding the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic >> Church in America >> took great pride in dissociating itself from "old >> world ways" by >> rejecting chant and polyphony. In its place, they >> replaced these >> traditions with very poor pseudo-folk music. I >> suppose this was done in >> order to provide "hip" music to attract >> young people, under the >> assumption that no one under 30 can stand >> still long enough to >> appreciate beauty. Unfortunately, the resultant >> music was some hideous >> hybrid that succeeded in being neither >> appropriately sacred nor in any >> way interesting to young people. At >> any rate, young people stayed away >> in droves, largely because of >> this smaltzy stuff. Still, these very >> same wannabe hippy songs - now >> approaching 50 years old - and the >> stated need to use them to >> attract young people are repeated ad >> nauseum. >> One of the >> great unwritten-about artistic travesties of the 20th >> century is the >> fact that this entire repertoire, which replaced a >> still-living >> century's old tradition, was not called for by any Church >> decree, >> but was largely engineered by the publishing company Oregan >> Catholic >> Press. If you go to practically any church in the country you >> will >> find the same poor quality songs from the 1960's and 1970's in the >> >> hymnals. This is not due to regulation, but rather a publishing deal. >> >> Chris >> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. >> Music Faculty >> Nazareth >> College, Rochester, NY >> State University of New York at Geneseo >> >> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer >> www.christopherwilke.com >> --- On >> Wed, 3/14/12, [7][email protected]<[8][email protected]> wrote: >> >> From: >> [9][email protected]<[10][email protected]> >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules >> for jazz performers >> To: [11][email protected] >> Cc: lute@cs. >> dartmouth.edu >> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:49 AM >> >> I >> googled, in Italian, and this came out [1][12]http://www.giovaninsede. >> >> it/animazione-liturgica.php , there are no notes as music is not >> >> thaught in the same way as abroad, so average people can sometimes read >> >> chords ( sigh) and that is. You can get an idea. I used to go to >> Mass >> as a child, and songs which were sung were possibly ancient and >> >> complex, often in Latin, then when the previous Pope came, he >> >> destroyed that part, I guess to make audience ( sad to say, but that >> >> is), so that songs became the poorest, musically speaking, you can >> >> imagine, accompanied by guitar, organ was heard now and then. It was >> >> part of a "renovation" of which I can give an example: in the village >> >> where I go on holiday , there is a Chapel with a Renaissance >> painting. >> It needed restoring, but it was visible. Well , it was >> covered with a >> representation of a black Madonna ( I can't think of >> the proper name >> right now) which is not even of any artistic value. >> >> To me listening to >> the Mass became a real suffering, this is not >> the main reason why I >> quit, but I did. >> Lute and theorbo are >> allowed, I have been asked >> several times to play a piece during the >> mass ( but I have not done it >> up to now) >> Donatella >> ---- >> Messaggio originale---- >> Da: >> [2][13][email protected] >> Data: >> 14/03/2012 1.06 >> A: "Lute Net"<lute@cs. >> dartmouth.edu> >> Ogg: >> [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers >> On Mar >> 13, 2012, at 4: >> 01 PM, Tony wrote: >> > The Church's doctrine on >> liturgical music >> can be summarized in seven >> > points .... >> Doubtless >> there are >> listers who know more about this than I do, but this list >> seems like >> a compilation of things that have been said on the subject >> over the >> centuries, rather than functioning doctrine. A lot of it is >> pre- >> Vatican II. The one about guitars, for example, is obviously forty >> >> or fifty years years out of date. Try googling: catholic mass guitar >> >> (no quotes). Apparently the current pope Benedict doesn't like >> >> guitars. >> -- >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> >> [3][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> E' nata >> indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica >> indoona per >> iPhone, Android e PC: [4][15]http://www.indoona.com/ >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> >> 1. [16]http://www.giovaninsede/ >> 2. file://localhost/mc/compose? >> to=[17][email protected] >> 3. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute- >> admin/index.html >> 4. [19]http://www.indoona.com/ >> >> >> >> >> E' nata indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica >> indoona per iPhone, Android e PC: [20]http://www.indoona.com/ > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [21][email protected] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > [22]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name > [23]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > [24]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > > -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[email protected] 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. mailto:[email protected] 12. http://www.giovaninsede/ 13. mailto:[email protected] 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. http://www.indoona.com/ 16. http://www.giovaninsede/ 17. mailto:[email protected] 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute- 19. http://www.indoona.com/ 20. http://www.indoona.com/ 21. mailto:[email protected] 22. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name 23. http://www.myspace.com/edslute 24. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
