Mark,
Unlike the "revolution" in Catholic church music in the 1960's the
stile moderno never replaced the old ways. Indeed, Monteverdi himself
continued to write in the stile antico. Monty could also get away with
hybridizing the new and the old as in the extravagant contextual use of
a cantus firmus in the "Sonata sopra 'Sancta Maria'" from the 1610
Vespers. Even as musical taste continued to change, later church
composers never gave up old procedures. Ancient compositional
techniques such as the cantus firmus and polyphonic fugal sections are
found in even the most progressive sacred settings. Late in life, Franz
Liszt gave up virtuosity and composed a body of sacred music which
combines plainchant melodies with what were then extremely adventurous
harmonies based on octatonic and whole tone scales.
The Catholic Church in America literally threw that entire
tradition out and replaced it with simplified and watered down John
Denver.
Chris
--- On Wed, 3/14/12, Mark Wheeler <[email protected]> wrote:
Wasn't it terrible when that damn Monteverdi start writing all that
modern stuff, how could he :)
On Mar 14, 2012, at 3:58 PM, Edward Mast wrote:
> A very sad state of affairs, Chris. I never understood the church's
- catholic, protestant, or otherwise - desire to revise its music
programs to reflect what is going on musically in society; to appear
to be more "relevant". If you remove the unique and beautiful musical
aspects of the church service and make it more like what's going on
everywhere outside the church, don't you also remove the motivation
for congregants to come and experience something they don't find
outside the church? If, as you say, young people have stayed away in
droves, it would seem so.
> On Mar 14, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote:
>
> Ned
>
>> Donatella,
>> In America the change in music came much earlier, in many
places
>> preceding the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic Church in
America
>> took great pride in dissociating itself from "old world ways" by
>> rejecting chant and polyphony. In its place, they replaced these
>> traditions with very poor pseudo-folk music. I suppose this was
done in
>> order to provide "hip" music to attract young people, under the
>> assumption that no one under 30 can stand still long enough to
>> appreciate beauty. Unfortunately, the resultant music was some
hideous
>> hybrid that succeeded in being neither appropriately sacred nor in
any
>> way interesting to young people. At any rate, young people stayed
away
>> in droves, largely because of this smaltzy stuff. Still, these very
>> same wannabe hippy songs - now approaching 50 years old - and the
>> stated need to use them to attract young people are repeated ad
>> nauseum.
>> One of the great unwritten-about artistic travesties of the
20th
>> century is the fact that this entire repertoire, which replaced a
>> still-living century's old tradition, was not called for by any
Church
>> decree, but was largely engineered by the publishing company Oregan
>> Catholic Press. If you go to practically any church in the country
you
>> will find the same poor quality songs from the 1960's and 1970's in
the
>> hymnals. This is not due to regulation, but rather a publishing
deal.
>> Chris
>> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
>> Music Faculty
>> Nazareth College, Rochester, NY
>> State University of New York at Geneseo
>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>> www.christopherwilke.com
>> --- On Wed, 3/14/12, [1][email protected] <[2][email protected]>
wrote:
>>
>> From: [3][email protected] <[4][email protected]>
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
>> To: [5][email protected]
>> Cc: [6][email protected]
>> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:49 AM
>>
>> I googled, in Italian, and this came out
[1][7]http://www.giovaninsede.
>> it/animazione-liturgica.php , there are no notes as music is not
>> thaught in the same way as abroad, so average people can sometimes
read
>> chords ( sigh) and that is. You can get an idea. I used to go to
Mass
>> as a child, and songs which were sung were possibly ancient and
>> complex, often in Latin, then when the previous Pope came, he
>> destroyed that part, I guess to make audience ( sad to say, but
that
>> is), so that songs became the poorest, musically speaking, you can
>> imagine, accompanied by guitar, organ was heard now and then. It
was
>> part of a "renovation" of which I can give an example: in the
village
>> where I go on holiday , there is a Chapel with a Renaissance
painting.
>> It needed restoring, but it was visible. Well , it was covered with
a
>> representation of a black Madonna ( I can't think of the proper
name
>> right now) which is not even of any artistic value.
>> To me listening to
>> the Mass became a real suffering, this is not the main reason why I
>> quit, but I did.
>> Lute and theorbo are allowed, I have been asked
>> several times to play a piece during the mass ( but I have not done
it
>> up to now)
>> Donatella
>> ----Messaggio originale----
>> Da:
>> [2][8][email protected]
>> Data: 14/03/2012 1.06
>> A: "Lute Net"<lute@cs.
>> dartmouth.edu>
>> Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
>> On Mar
>> 13, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Tony wrote:
>>> The Church's doctrine on
>> liturgical music can be summarized in seven
>>> points ....
>> Doubtless
>> there are listers who know more about this than I do, but this list
>> seems like a compilation of things that have been said on the
subject
>> over the centuries, rather than functioning doctrine. A lot of it
is
>> pre-Vatican II. The one about guitars, for example, is obviously
forty
>> or fifty years years out of date. Try googling: catholic mass
guitar
>> (no quotes). Apparently the current pope Benedict doesn't like
>> guitars.
>> --
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [3][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> E' nata indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica
>> indoona per iPhone, Android e PC: [4][10]http://www.indoona.com/
>>
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. [11]http://www.giovaninsede/
>> 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[12][email protected]
>> 3. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 4. [14]http://www.indoona.com/
>>
>
>
>
--
References
1. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
2. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
3. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
4. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
5. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
6. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
7. http://www.giovaninsede/
8. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. http://www.indoona.com/
11. http://www.giovaninsede/
12. file://localhost/mc/[email protected]
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. http://www.indoona.com/
