<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8"></head><body>Covarrubias? I think that was the source, I
might be wrong. <div> A non musical one, btw. <br><br><br><font
size="2">Enviado de Samsung Mobile</font> </div><br><br><br>Martin Shepherd
<mar...@luteshop.co.uk> escribió:<br><br><br>Dear Martyn and
all,<br><br>I think the notion that the vihuela was strung in unisons is based
on a <br>source (which one, anyone?) which contrasts the vihuela with the
<br>"Flemish vihuela" i.e. the lute. Can someone help with the
reference?<br><br>As far as I know there is no documentary evidence on the
unison/octave <br>issue except that Piasdor's tuning instructions imply a
unison 4th <br>course (but say nothing about the other courses).<br><br>I think
it is wrong to assume that playing a string with the finger <br>rather than the
thumb will emphasize one or other octave - it's all a <br>matter of
technique.<br><br>All the!
best,<br><br>Martin<br><br>On 21/01/2013 10:44, Martyn Hodgson
wrote:<br>> Dear
Martin,<br>><br>> You may recall that quite some
years ago it was generally accepted that<br>> the
vihuela (but not the viola) was strung in unison - I believe
this<br>> was a misreading of an early source and
was explained through the great<br>> wealth of Spain
in the periof whereby such expensive strings could
be<br>> generally
afforded.<br>><br>> We seem to have moved on from
this to at least generally allowing an<br>> octave
on the 6th course of the vihuela. Do we have any early
vihuela<br>> source which describes octaves (or
unisons) on the 5tn and 4th<br>> courses? One
of the practical difficulties might be the !
occasional<br>> contemporary use of!
playing passages on the 5th course with an<br>>
accompanying bass on the 6th course: in these circumstances it
is<br>> tricky to avoid the finger plucked 5th
course upper octave<br>> dominating if one is used -
or perhaps this was one of the charms of<br>> the
instrument ( a bit like re-entrant tuning on the later 5
course<br>> guitar)?......... - or when
two courses were to be plucked<br>> simultaneously,
is one expected to use the same thumb stroke to
cover<br>> the two
courses?....<br>><br>>
regards,<br>><br>>
Martyn<br>><br>> PS Can't get out more -
the snow's too deep over the moor tops.....<br>> ---
On Sun, 20/1/13, Martin Shepherd <martin@!
luteshop.co.uk> wrote:<br>><br>>
From: Martin Shepherd
<mar...@luteshop.co.uk><br>>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c stringing?<br>>
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu<br>> Date:
Sunday, 20 January, 2013, 19:52<br>><br>> Hi
All,<br>> I agree with Sam on three points: I've
never found it "necessary" to<br>> have an octave on
the 4th course, it's difficult to get a unison 5th
to<br>> work well (in gut), and unison 6th I've
never liked. The only person<br>> to mention
unison 6th is Dowland in 1610, and he's talking about his
9c<br>> lute. No one else seems to have done
it - it seems to have been usual<br>> for all kinds
of baroque!
lutes to have octaves starting at the 6th<br>> &nb!
sp; (though Mace might be a counterexample).<br>>
As far as 6c lute is concerned, I think there's plenty of room
for<br>> conjecture. Early tablatures (e.g.
Spinacino) have plenty of internal<br>> evidence for
octaves on courses 4-6. Unison stringing of more
courses<br>> is said to have been introduced by
Fabritio Dentice, who died c.1600 -<br>> we might
therefore suspect that particularly in Italian music of
the<br>> second half of the 16th C, unisons may have
been more widely used.<br>> Octaves seem to have
persisted longer in England than anywhere else<br>>
(Dowland says as much) and there is internal evidence in the music
of<br>> Cutting, Johnson, Holborne etc which seems
to confirm this.<br>> !
Whether the octave "sticks out" is another matter - it's a lot to
do<br>> with strings and even more to do with
technique. For instance, all my<br>> Francesco
recordings were done with octaves on courses 4-6, but I
don't<br>> think you would always know from
listening. The music is mostly<br>> written as
though the octaves were not there, and the main objective
is<br>> to realise the counterpoint
effectively.<br>> Best
wishes,<br>> Martin<br>>
On 20/01/2013 18:01, Sam Chapman wrote:<br>> >
Dear Bill,<br>> ><br>>
> I generally make these kind of decisions depending on what kind
of<br>> > strings I have available and what
sounds best!
on my lutes.<br>> > Since I play very li!
ttle early 16th-century repertoire I never use
an<br>> > octave on the 4th course: whatever
string I use for the 4th course,<br>> > I've
never felt that the sound is so dull that it needs a high
octave<br>> > to brighten it. Like you, I think
it would get in the way in much<br>> > repertoire
(though I know that there is probably some earlier
music<br>> > which requires the octave 4th course
to make sense of certain<br>> > contrapuntal
figures).<br>> > I've found that I can use unison
stringing effectively on the 5th<br>> > course
only with the very best-quality pure gut strings. If
the<br>> course<br>> >
sounds dull I would use an octave on it, whatever the repertoire.<br>> !
> I've never been satisfied with unison stringing on the
6th course.<br>> > Even with modern wound
strings, I've found that they tend to clash<br>>
> together (though I'm sure there are some types of historical
wound<br>> > strings which work better). So, I
always use an octave on the 6th<br>> > course,
simply because the course sounds better like that and
is<br>> > easier to control. I imagine that those
historical writers who talk<br>> > about using
unisons on the 6th course (and below) must have
had<br>> access<br>> >
to better strings than I've been able to get hold
of!<br>> ><br>> >
All the best,<br>> ><br>> &nbs!
p; > Sam<br>> ><br>> &nb!
sp; ><br>>
><br>> ><br>> >
On 20 January 2013 16:21, William Samson
<[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk><br>>
wrote:<br>> >> Dear
Collective Wisdom,<br>>
>><br>> >> I
believe that 6c lutes are often strung with octaves on
the<br>> 6th, 5th<br>>
>> and 4th
courses.<br>>
>><br>> >> Would
you use that stringing for all parts of the
lute<br>> repertoire
that<br>> >> needs
only six courses, or would other arrangements
be<br>> ap!
propriate for<br>> >>
parts of the repertoire?<br>>
>><br>> >> I'm
particularly fond of the 6c English music that is found
in<br>> many<br>>
>> mid-late 16th century sources. Playing
with an octave on the<br>>
4th<br>> >> sounds
intrusive to my ear, but maybe I need to train my ear
to<br>> accept<br>>
>> it?<br>>
>><br>> >>
Bill<br>> >><br>>
>> --<br>>
>><br>> !
; >><br>> >> T!
o get on or off this list see list information
at<br>> >>
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<br>>
><br>>
><br>><br>> --<br>><br>>
References<br>><br>> 1.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk<br>>
2.
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<br>><br><br><br><br></body>
