Dear G Abramovic,
I'd love to read what you wrote but all I got was this below! Is it
Wayne's system or what?
regards
Martyn Hodgson
--- On Mon, 21/1/13, G_abramovic <g_abramo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: G_abramovic <g_abramo...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vihuela stringing - was 6c (lute) stringing?
To: "Martin Shepherd" <mar...@luteshop.co.uk>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Monday, 21 January, 2013, 12:13
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8"></head><body>Covarrubias? I think that was the
source, I might be wrong. <div> A non musical one,
btw. <br><br><br><font size="2">Enviado de Samsung Mobile</font>
</div><br><br><br>Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
escribie',:<br><br><br>Dear Martyn and all,<br><br>I think the notion
that the vihuela was strung in unisons is based on a <br>source (which
one, anyone?) which contrasts the vihuela with the <br>"Flemish
vihuela" i.e. the lute. Can someone help with the
reference?<br><br>As far as I know there is no documentary evidence on
the unison/octave <br>issue except that Piasdor's tuning instructions
imply a unison 4th <br>course (but say nothing about the other
courses).<br><br>I think it is wrong to assume that playing a string
with the finger <br>rather than the thumb will emphasize one or other
octave - it's all a <br>matter of technique.<br><br>All the!
best,<br><br>Martin<br><br>On 21/01/2013 10:44, Martyn Hodgson
wrote:<br>> Dear
Martin,<br>><br>> You may recall that
quite some years ago it was generally accepted
that<br>> the vihuela (but not the viola)
was strung in unison - I believe this<br>>
was a misreading of an early source and was explained through the
great<br>> wealth of Spain in the periof
whereby such expensive strings could be<br>>
generally afforded.<br>><br>> We seem to
have moved on from this to at least generally allowing
an<br>> octave on the 6th course of the
vihuela. Do we have any early vihuela<br>>
source which describes octaves (or unisons) on the 5tn and
4th<br>> courses? One of the practical
difficulties might be the !
occasional<br>> contemporary use of!
playing passages on the 5th course with
an<br>> accompanying bass on the 6th
course: in these circumstances it
is<br>> tricky to avoid the finger plucked
5th course upper octave<br>> dominating if
one is used - or perhaps this was one of the charms
of<br>> the instrument ( a bit like
re-entrant tuning on the later 5 course<br>>
guitar)?......... - or when two courses were to be
plucked<br>> simultaneously, is one expected
to use the same thumb stroke to cover<br>>
the two courses?....<br>><br>>
regards,<br>><br>>
Martyn<br>><br>> PS Can't get out
more - the snow's too deep over the moor
tops.....<br>> --- On Sun, 20/1/13, Martin
Shepherd <martin@!
luteshop.co.uk>
wrote:<br>><br>> From: Martin
Shepherd
<[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk><br>> &
nbsp; Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c
stringing?<br>> To:
[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu<br>>
Date: Sunday, 20 January, 2013,
19:52<br>><br>> Hi
All,<br>> I agree with Sam on three points:
I've never found it "necessary" to<br>> have
an octave on the 4th course, it's difficult to get a unison 5th
to<br>> work well (in gut), and unison 6th
I've never liked. The only person<br>>
to mention unison 6th is Dowland in 1610, and he's talking about his
9c<br>> lute. No one else seems to
have done it - it seems to have been
usual<br>> for all kinds of baroque!
lutes to have octaves starting at the
6th<br>> &nb!
sp; (though Mace might be a
counterexample).<br>> As far as 6c lute is
concerned, I think there's plenty of room
for<br>> conjecture. Early tablatures
(e.g. Spinacino) have plenty of
internal<br>> evidence for octaves on
courses 4-6. Unison stringing of more
courses<br>> is said to have been introduced
by Fabritio Dentice, who died c.1600 -<br>>
we might therefore suspect that particularly in Italian music of
the<br>> second half of the 16th C, unisons
may have been more widely used.<br>> Octaves
seem to have persisted longer in England than anywhere
else<br>> (Dowland says as much) and there
is internal evidence in the music of<br>>
Cutting, Johnson, Holborne etc which seems to confirm
this.<br>> !
Whether the octave "sticks out" is another matter - it's a lot to
do<br>> with strings and even more to do
with technique. For instance, all
my<br>> Francesco recordings were done with
octaves on courses 4-6, but I don't<br>>
think you would always know from listening. The music is
mostly<br>> written as though the octaves
were not there, and the main objective
is<br>> to realise the counterpoint
effectively.<br>> Best
wishes,<br>>
Martin<br>> On 20/01/2013 18:01, Sam Chapman
wrote:<br>> > Dear
Bill,<br>>
><br>> > I generally make these kind
of decisions depending on what kind of<br>>
> strings I have available and what sounds best!
on my lutes.<br>> > Since I play very
li!
ttle early 16th-century repertoire I never use
an<br>> > octave on the 4th course:
whatever string I use for the 4th
course,<br>> > I've never felt that the
sound is so dull that it needs a high
octave<br>> > to brighten it. Like you, I
think it would get in the way in much<br>>
> repertoire (though I know that there is probably some earlier
music<br>> > which requires the octave
4th course to make sense of certain<br>>
> contrapuntal figures).<br>> > I've
found that I can use unison stringing effectively on the
5th<br>> > course only with the very
best-quality pure gut strings. If the<br>>
course<br>> > sounds dull I would use an
octave on it, whatever the repertoire.<br>> !
> I've never been satisfied with unison stringing
on the 6th course.<br>> > Even with
modern wound strings, I've found that they tend to
clash<br>> > together (though I'm sure
there are some types of historical
wound<br>> > strings which work better).
So, I always use an octave on the 6th<br>>
> course, simply because the course sounds better like that and
is<br>> > easier to control. I imagine
that those historical writers who talk<br>>
> about using unisons on the 6th course (and below) must have
had<br>>
access<br>> > to better strings than I've
been able to get hold of!<br>>
><br>> > All the
best,<br>> ><br>> &nbs!
p; > Sam<br>>
><br>> &nb!
sp; ><br>>
><br>>
><br>> > On 20 January 2013 16:21,
William Samson
<[1][4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk><br>>
wrote:<br>> >>
Dear Collective Wisdom,<br>>
>><br>>
>> I believe that 6c lutes are often
strung with octaves on the<br>> 6th,
5th<br>> >>
and 4th courses.<br>>
>><br>>
>> Would you use that stringing for all
parts of the lute<br>> repertoire
that<br>> >>
needs only six courses, or would other arrangements
be<br>> ap!
propriate for<br>>
>> parts of the
repertoire?<br>>
>><br>>
>> I'm particularly fond of the 6c
English music that is found in<br>>
many<br>> >>
mid-late 16th century sources. Playing with an octave on
the<br>> 4th<br>>
>> sounds intrusive to my ear, but maybe
I need to train my ear to<br>>
accept<br>> >>
it?<br>>
>><br>>
>> Bill<br>>
>><br>>
>> --<br>>
>><br>> !
; >><br>> >>
T!
o get on or off this list see list information
at<br>> >>
[2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<br>>&nb
sp; ><br>>
><br>><br>> --<br>><br>>
References<br>><br>> 1.
[6]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk<
br>> 2.
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<br>><br><b
r><br><br></body>
--
References
1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mar...@luteshop.co.uk
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mar...@luteshop.co.uk
3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
To get on or off this list see list information at
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