Dear Martin & Martyn-
In regard to technique being a factor in controlling the effect of 8ve
strings- my personal experience is that the thumb under/inside
technique, bringing more finger/thumb surface to bear on the course as a
whole & the more parallel (even absolute parallel if one wishes)
position of the fingers to the strings allows an inherently softer
touch- ("muffled and rotten" according to Stobaus, Vallet, et al who
promoted thumb out/over) - which enables more thorough blending of 8ve
& fundamental in addition to the softer touch itself. Also, thumb &
finger touch become less dissimilar. Such is the way I handle my 8ve
strung 6 course lute- although as I said earlier I still find
counterpoint easier to manage to my satisfaction played on instruments
with unison 4th & 5th, even if possibly anachronistic.
Touch, stringing, lute style, and music style are all elements of an
entire picture; soft, uniform blending touch on smaller range
instruments whose disparate 8ves make for a brighter, livelier sound
necessary for gut- but must nevertheless be able to play polyphonic
music clearly & effectively vs. the Baroque ideal of more widely
separated & distinct treble-bass orientation on larger instruments with
a more widely separated bass & treble range. Unison courses 1 to 5 work
better for fingers that play not only from the thumb out orientation but
also closer to the bridge, and the thumb- always going in one direction
(free strokes or rest strokes as necessary or desirable) even able to
pick out and singly play just the 8ve. or the fundamental.
The untidy parts of course fall in a vast middle ground (about 50-60
years worth?) - 7 to 10 course lutes muddying Vincenzo Galilei's ideal
late period 6 course lute, differing but overlapping
sound/composing/playing ideals that accompany these changes in
instruments and their strings. Dowland alone (as far as we know)
advocating for 6th course unison, but as Martin points out on his
website, there is a period painting distinctly showing a 10 course lute
strung with 8ves to & including the 4th course. So we do the best we
can, hash out the means and results amongst ourselves.
One thing I've always hated- overspun fundies paired with ridiculously
light nylon 8ves. Would have sent me screaming back to the classical
guitar if I hadn't known there had to be a better way.
Dan
On 1/21/2013 5:07 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Dear Martyn,
I never said it was easy! It's not a question of "avoiding playing all
the upper octaves" but a question of emphasis and blending. I assume
(perhaps wrongly) that it is always desirable to play both strings of a
course. As others have said, the nature of a particular instrument and
the nature of particular strings may be very important variables here.
One thing I would suggest is that it is a mistake to think (as people
did in the early days of octave stringing on lutes in the 1970s) that
octaves will "stick out" less if they are much lower tension than the
lower octave string. The reverse may even be true.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 21/01/2013 13:38, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear Martin,
Thanks for this: I'll revisit Pisador's instructions and see what they
imply.
Re your observation that 'I think it is wrong to assume that playing a
string with the finger rather than the thumb will emphasize one or
other octave - it's all a matter of technique.' Well, I do think you're
mistaken here: else why do the Old Ones (not to mention the Modern
Ones) agonise about the placement of octaves on, say, the 5 course
guitar if it's as easy to avoid high (or low) octaves as you suggest?
Similarly, if less obvious, for the lute.
Or are you saying that it's as easy for you personally to, say, pluck a
three note chord consisting of just the 4th, 5th and 6th course on a
lute with octaves and avoid playing all the upper octaves, as it is
not to. If so, I take my hat of to you.
regards,
Martyn
--- On Mon, 21/1/13, Martin Shepherd [1]<mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:
From: Martin Shepherd [2]<mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vihuela stringing - was 6c (lute) stringing?
To: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Monday, 21 January, 2013, 12:00
Dear Martyn and all,
I think the notion that the vihuela was strung in unisons is based on a
source (which one, anyone?) which contrasts the vihuela with the
"Flemish vihuela" i.e. the lute. Can someone help with the reference?
As far as I know there is no documentary evidence on the unison/octave
issue except that Piasdor's tuning instructions imply a unison 4th
course (but say nothing about the other courses).
I think it is wrong to assume that playing a string with the finger
rather than the thumb will emphasize one or other octave - it's all a
matter of technique.
All the best,
Martin
On 21/01/2013 10:44, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> Dear Martin,
>
> You may recall that quite some years ago it was generally
accepted that
> the vihuela (but not the viola) was strung in unison - I believe
this
> was a misreading of an early source and was explained through the
great
> wealth of Spain in the periof whereby such expensive strings
could be
> generally afforded.
>
> We seem to have moved on from this to at least generally allowing
an
> octave on the 6th course of the vihuela. Do we have any early
vihuela
> source which describes octaves (or unisons) on the 5tn and 4th
> courses? One of the practical difficulties might be the
occasional
> contemporary use of playing passages on the 5th course with an
> accompanying bass on the 6th course: in these circumstances it
is
> tricky to avoid the finger plucked 5th course upper octave
> dominating if one is used - or perhaps this was one of the charms
of
> the instrument ( a bit like re-entrant tuning on the later 5
course
> guitar)?......... - or when two courses were to be plucked
> simultaneously, is one expected to use the same thumb stroke to
cover
> the two courses?....
>
> regards,
>
> Martyn
>
> PS Can't get out more - the snow's too deep over the moor
tops.....
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