Dear Martyn and all,
I think the notion that the vihuela was strung in unisons is based on a
source (which one, anyone?) which contrasts the vihuela with the
"Flemish vihuela" i.e. the lute. Can someone help with the reference?
As far as I know there is no documentary evidence on the unison/octave
issue except that Piasdor's tuning instructions imply a unison 4th
course (but say nothing about the other courses).
I think it is wrong to assume that playing a string with the finger
rather than the thumb will emphasize one or other octave - it's all a
matter of technique.
All the best,
Martin
On 21/01/2013 10:44, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear Martin,
You may recall that quite some years ago it was generally accepted that
the vihuela (but not the viola) was strung in unison - I believe this
was a misreading of an early source and was explained through the great
wealth of Spain in the periof whereby such expensive strings could be
generally afforded.
We seem to have moved on from this to at least generally allowing an
octave on the 6th course of the vihuela. Do we have any early vihuela
source which describes octaves (or unisons) on the 5tn and 4th
courses? One of the practical difficulties might be the occasional
contemporary use of playing passages on the 5th course with an
accompanying bass on the 6th course: in these circumstances it is
tricky to avoid the finger plucked 5th course upper octave
dominating if one is used - or perhaps this was one of the charms of
the instrument ( a bit like re-entrant tuning on the later 5 course
guitar)?......... - or when two courses were to be plucked
simultaneously, is one expected to use the same thumb stroke to cover
the two courses?....
regards,
Martyn
PS Can't get out more - the snow's too deep over the moor tops.....
--- On Sun, 20/1/13, Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:
From: Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c stringing?
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Sunday, 20 January, 2013, 19:52
Hi All,
I agree with Sam on three points: I've never found it "necessary" to
have an octave on the 4th course, it's difficult to get a unison 5th to
work well (in gut), and unison 6th I've never liked. The only person
to mention unison 6th is Dowland in 1610, and he's talking about his 9c
lute. No one else seems to have done it - it seems to have been usual
for all kinds of baroque lutes to have octaves starting at the 6th
(though Mace might be a counterexample).
As far as 6c lute is concerned, I think there's plenty of room for
conjecture. Early tablatures (e.g. Spinacino) have plenty of internal
evidence for octaves on courses 4-6. Unison stringing of more courses
is said to have been introduced by Fabritio Dentice, who died c.1600 -
we might therefore suspect that particularly in Italian music of the
second half of the 16th C, unisons may have been more widely used.
Octaves seem to have persisted longer in England than anywhere else
(Dowland says as much) and there is internal evidence in the music of
Cutting, Johnson, Holborne etc which seems to confirm this.
Whether the octave "sticks out" is another matter - it's a lot to do
with strings and even more to do with technique. For instance, all my
Francesco recordings were done with octaves on courses 4-6, but I don't
think you would always know from listening. The music is mostly
written as though the octaves were not there, and the main objective is
to realise the counterpoint effectively.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 20/01/2013 18:01, Sam Chapman wrote:
> Dear Bill,
>
> I generally make these kind of decisions depending on what kind of
> strings I have available and what sounds best on my lutes.
> Since I play very little early 16th-century repertoire I never use an
> octave on the 4th course: whatever string I use for the 4th course,
> I've never felt that the sound is so dull that it needs a high octave
> to brighten it. Like you, I think it would get in the way in much
> repertoire (though I know that there is probably some earlier music
> which requires the octave 4th course to make sense of certain
> contrapuntal figures).
> I've found that I can use unison stringing effectively on the 5th
> course only with the very best-quality pure gut strings. If the
course
> sounds dull I would use an octave on it, whatever the repertoire.
> I've never been satisfied with unison stringing on the 6th course.
> Even with modern wound strings, I've found that they tend to clash
> together (though I'm sure there are some types of historical wound
> strings which work better). So, I always use an octave on the 6th
> course, simply because the course sounds better like that and is
> easier to control. I imagine that those historical writers who talk
> about using unisons on the 6th course (and below) must have had
access
> to better strings than I've been able to get hold of!
>
> All the best,
>
> Sam
>
>
>
>
> On 20 January 2013 16:21, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>> Dear Collective Wisdom,
>>
>> I believe that 6c lutes are often strung with octaves on the
6th, 5th
>> and 4th courses.
>>
>> Would you use that stringing for all parts of the lute
repertoire that
>> needs only six courses, or would other arrangements be
appropriate for
>> parts of the repertoire?
>>
>> I'm particularly fond of the 6c English music that is found in
many
>> mid-late 16th century sources. Playing with an octave on the
4th
>> sounds intrusive to my ear, but maybe I need to train my ear to
accept
>> it?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
References
1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
