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it didn't work the first time!
Le Mercredi 10 août 2016 9h35, jean-michel Catherinot
<[email protected]> a écrit :
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What Mersenne says: has anybody ever tried Mersenne stringing?
  Le Jeudi 4 août 2016 17h50, Martin Shepherd <[email protected]> a
écrit :
Dear Martyn (and All),
I'm not ruling out the possibility of loaded strings, but I do think the
evidence from bridge holes is mixed, in the sense that we would have to
be absolutely certain that a bridge with small holes was original.
Even with modern gut strings it's possible to string a 6c lute with only
plain gut (well, high twist or whatever) in the bass and also a 13c swan
neck lute! The difficult cases are the 8 to 10 course lutes, the 13c
bass rider type, also the liuto attiorbato, for all of which loaded
basses might well be the answer.
I can't send attachments to the list but I'm sending you another
painting from 1576 which shows strings very clearly and they're
remarkably thin.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 04/08/2016 14:55, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
>Â Â Hello Martin,
>Â Â Nice site and blog.
>Â Â I seem to recall that when loaded strings first came out (25 yrs ago?)
>Â Â that some of the evidence for their use was found in the small diameter
>Â Â holes in some lute bridges. To maintain string tensions at around
>Â Â present day levels the hypothesis was therefore that the old bass
>Â Â strings would have been dense than plain gut - hence 'loaded'.
>Â Â I also recall that somebody (might have been Eph Segerman) at the time
>Â Â also pointed out an alternative for such relatively small diameter
>Â Â holes: that the tensions of the bass strings might be much lower than
>Â Â the upper courses. In short just as you're suggesting. My experience of
>Â Â doing this at the time was that one needed to play very close to the
>Â Â bridge to gain any projection and, of course, this is precisely what
>Â Â most old sources (from c.1600 onwards) tell us. So you may be right -
>Â Â that basses were often(always?) at a significantly lower tension than
>Â Â the upper courses.
>Â Â Having said this, I did like Mimmo's loaded strings very much and, of
>Â Â course, they also possibly indicate loading because of their
>Â Â distinctive colour. All food for thought......
>Â Â regards,
>Â Â Martyn
>Â Â Â __________________________________________________________________
>
>Â Â From: Martin Shepherd <[email protected]>
>Â Â To: Lute List <[email protected]>
>Â Â Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:51
>Â Â Subject: [LUTE] blog post
>Â Â Hi All,
>Â Â Just to let you know that I have put up a new blog post - let me know
>Â Â your thoughts.
>Â Â [1]http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/
>Â Â Best wishes,
>Â Â Martin
>Â Â ---
>Â Â This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>Â Â [2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>Â Â To get on or off this list see list information at
>Â Â [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>Â Â --
>
> References
>
>Â Â 1. http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/
>Â Â 2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>Â Â 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:16px">What Mersenne says: has anybody ever tried Mersenne
stringing?<br><div id="yiv6236348355"><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9789"><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9788"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div
dir="ltr" id="yiv6236348355yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6315"><span
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data-id="84537d88-4aa8-a35a-ce57-f7e82f01cd17"
class="yiv6236348355ymail-preserve-class
yiv6236348355inline-image-guid-40f452ff-a065-08d4-1874-196d8df0db3a
yiv6236348355rte-inline-saved-image"
id="yiv6236348355yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6482"
src="cid:[email protected]" alt="Image en ligne"
style="width:100%;max-wi!
dth:800px;max-height:210px;"><br clear="none"></span></div> <div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9795"
class="yiv6236348355qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div
class="yiv6236348355yqt5440112712"
id="yiv6236348355yqt67837"></div></div></div></div><div
class=".yiv6236348355yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida
Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2"
face="Arial"> Le Jeudi 4 août 2016 17h50, Martin Shepherd
<[email protected]> a écrit :<br clear="none"></font></div> <br
clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv6236348355y_msg_container">Dear
Martyn (and All),<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I'm not ruling out the
possibility of loaded strings, but I do think the <br clear="none">evidence
from bridge holes is mixed, in the sense that !
w!
e would have to <br clear="none">be absolutely certain that a !
bridge with small holes was original.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Even
with modern gut strings it's possible to string a 6c lute with only <br
clear="none">plain gut (well, high twist or whatever) in the bass and also a
13c swan <br clear="none">neck lute! The difficult cases are the 8 to 10
course lutes, the 13c <br clear="none">bass rider type, also the liuto
attiorbato, for all of which loaded <br clear="none">basses might well be the
answer.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I can't send attachments to the list
but I'm sending you another <br clear="none">painting from 1576 which shows
strings very clearly and they're <br clear="none">remarkably thin.<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">Best wishes,<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">Martin<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 04/08/2016 14:55,
Martyn Hodgson wrote:<br clear="none">> Â Hello Martin,<br
clear="none">> Â Nice site and blog.<br clear="none">>
 I seem to !
rec!
all that when loaded strings first came out (25 yrs ago?)<br
clear="none">> Â that some of the evidence for their use was
found in the small diameter<br clear="none">> Â holes in some
lute bridges. To maintain string tensions at around<br clear="none">>
 present day levels the hypothesis was therefore that the old bass<br
clear="none">> Â strings would have been dense than plain gut -
hence 'loaded'.<br clear="none">> Â I also recall that somebody
(might have been Eph Segerman) at the time<br clear="none">> Â
also pointed out an alternative for such relatively small diameter<br
clear="none">> Â holes: that the tensions of the bass strings
might be much lower than<br clear="none">> Â the upper courses.
In short just as you're suggesting. My experience of<br clear="none">>
 doing this at the time was that one needed to play very clo!
se to the!
<br clear="none">> Â bridge to gain any projection and, !
of course, this is precisely what<br clear="none">> Â most old
sources (from c.1600 onwards) tell us. So you may be right -<br
clear="none">> Â that basses were often(always?) at a
significantly lower tension than<br clear="none">> Â the upper
courses.<br clear="none">> Â Having said this, I did like
Mimmo's loaded strings very much and, of<br clear="none">> Â
course, they also possibly indicate loading because of their<br
clear="none">> Â distinctive colour. All food for
thought......<br clear="none">> Â regards,<br
clear="none">> Â Martyn<br clear="none">>
 __________________________________________________________________<br
clear="none">><br clear="none">> Â From: Martin Shepherd
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]!
">martin@l!
uteshop.co.uk</a>><br clear="none">> Â To: Lute List <<a
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
target="_blank"
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>><br
clear="none">> Â Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:51<br
clear="none">> Â Subject: [LUTE] blog post<br
clear="none">> Â Hi All,<br clear="none">> Â
Just to let you know that I have put up a new blog post - let me know<br
clear="none">> Â your thoughts.<br clear="none">>
 [1]<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";>http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a><br
clear="none">> Â Best wishes,<br clear="none">>
 Martin<br clear="none">>  ---<br
clear="none">> Â This email has been checked for viruses by
Avast !
antivirus s!
oftware.<br clear="none">> Â [2]<a rel="nofollow" shape=!
"rect" target="_blank"
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";>https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br
clear="none">> Â To get on or off this list see list
information at<br clear="none">> Â [3]<a rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html";>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html</a><br
clear="none">><br clear="none">> Â --<br
clear="none">><br clear="none">> References<br clear="none">><br
clear="none">> Â 1. <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";>http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a><br
clear="none">> Â 2. <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";>https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br
clear="none">> Â 3. <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
target="_blank" href="ht!
tp://w!
ww.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html</a><br
clear="none">><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">---<br
clear="none">This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";>https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br
clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br
clear="none"></div>Â </div> </div>Â </div></div></body></html>
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------=_Part_20656007_602760465.1470815796595
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<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470815543158_2952"><span>it didn't work the first
time!</span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div
style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family:
HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;
font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div
dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> Le Mercredi 10 août 2016 9h35,
jean-michel Catherinot <[email protected]> a écrit
:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div
class="y_msg_container">------=_Part_20544958_1944146177.1470814109702<br>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable<br><br>What Mersenne says!
: has anybody ever tried Mersenne stringing?<br><br> <br><br> Le
Jeudi 4 août 2016 17h50, Martin Shepherd <<a
ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> a écrit
:<br> <br><br> Dear Martyn (and All),<br><br>I'm not ruling out the possibility
of loaded strings, but I do think the <br>evidence from bridge holes is mixed,
in the sense that we would have to <br>be absolutely certain that a bridge with
small holes was original.<br><br>Even with modern gut strings it's possible to
string a 6c lute with only <br>plain gut (well, high twist or whatever) in the
bass and also a 13c swan <br>neck lute! The difficult cases are the 8 to
10 course lutes, the 13c <br>bass rider type, also the liuto attiorbato, for
all of which loaded <br>basses might well be the answer.<br><br>I can't send
attachments to the list but I'm sending you another <br>painting from 1576
which shows strings very clearly and they'!
re <br>remarkably thin.<br><br>Best wishes,<br><br>Martin<br><!
br>On 04/08/2016 14:55, Martyn Hodgson wrote:<br>> Hello
Martin,<br>> Nice site and blog.<br>> I seem to
recall that when loaded strings first came out (25 yrs ago?)<br>>
that some of the evidence for their use was found in the small
diameter<br>> holes in some lute bridges. To maintain string
tensions at around<br>> present day levels the hypothesis was
therefore that the old bass<br>> strings would have been dense
than plain gut - hence 'loaded'.<br>> I also recall that
somebody (might have been Eph Segerman) at the time<br>> also
pointed out an alternative for such relatively small diameter<br>>
holes: that the tensions of the bass strings might be much lower
than<br>> the upper courses. In short just as you're
suggesting. My experience of<br>> doing this at the time was
that one ne!
eded to play very close to the<br>> bridge to gain any
projection and, of course, this is precisely what<br>> most old
sources (from c.1600 onwards) tell us. So you may be right -<br>>
that basses were often(always?) at a significantly lower tension
than<br>> the upper courses.<br>> Having said
this, I did like Mimmo's loaded strings very much and, of<br>>
course, they also possibly indicate loading because of their<br>>
distinctive colour. All food for thought......<br>>
regards,<br>> Martyn<br>>
__________________________________________________________________<br>><br>>
From: Martin Shepherd <<a ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>><br>>
To: Lute List <<a ymailto="mailto:[email protected]"; href="m!
ailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>><br>> !
; Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:51<br>> Subject:
[LUTE] blog post<br>> Hi All,<br>> Just to let
you know that I have put up a new blog post - let me know<br>>
your thoughts.<br>> [1]<a
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";
target="_blank">http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a><br>>
Best wishes,<br>> Martin<br>>
---<br>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast
antivirus software.<br>> [2]<a
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";
target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br>> To get
on or off this list see list information at<br>> [3]<a
href="http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html";
target="_blank">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html</a><br>><br>>
--<br>><br>&!
gt; References<br>><br>> 1. <a
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";
target="_blank">http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a><br>>
2. <a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";
target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br>> 3. <a
href="http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html";
target="_blank">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html</a><br>><br><br><br>---<br>This
email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.<br><a
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";
target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br><br><br><br><br><br>------=_Part_20544958_1944146177.1470814109702<br>Content-Type:
text/html; charset=UTF-8<br>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable<br><br><html><head></head><body><div
style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, L!
ucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">What Mersenne says: has any!
body ever tried Mersenne stringing?<br><div
id="yiv6236348355"><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9789"><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9788"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div
dir="ltr" id="yiv6236348355yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6315"><span
id="yiv6236348355yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6483"><img
data-id="84537d88-4aa8-a35a-ce57-f7e82f01cd17"
class="yiv6236348355ymail-preserve-class
yiv6236348355inline-image-guid-40f452ff-a065-08d4-1874-196d8df0db3a
yiv6236348355rte-inline-saved-image"
id="yiv6236348355yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6482" src="cid:<a
ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>"
alt="Image en ligne" style="width:100%;max-wi!<br> dth:800px;max-height:210!
px;"><br clear="none"></span></div> <div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9795"
class="yiv6236348355qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br
clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6236348355yqt5440112712"
id="yiv6236348355yqt67837"></div></div></div></div><div
class=".yiv6236348355yahoo_quoted"> <div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida
Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida
Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2"
face="Arial"> Le Jeudi 4 août 2016 17h50, Martin Shepherd &lt;<a
ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt; a écrit
:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br
clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv6236348355y_msg_cont!
ainer">Dear Martyn (and All),<br clear="none"><br clear="no!
ne">I'm not ruling out the possibility of loaded strings, but I do think
the <br clear="none">evidence from bridge holes is mixed, in the sense
that w!<br> e would have to <br clear="none">be absolutely certain that a
!<br> bridge with small holes was original.<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">Even with modern gut strings it's possible to string a 6c lute
with only <br clear="none">plain gut (well, high twist or whatever) in
the bass and also a 13c swan <br clear="none">neck lute!&nbsp; The
difficult cases are the 8 to 10 course lutes, the 13c <br
clear="none">bass rider type, also the liuto attiorbato, for all of which
loaded <br clear="none">basses might well be the answer.<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">I can't send attachments to the list but
I'm sending you another <br clear="none">painting from 1576 which shows
strings very clearly and they're <br clear="none">remarkably thin.<br
clear!
="none"><br clear="none">Best wishes,<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">Martin<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On
04/08/2016 14:55, Martyn Hodgson wrote:<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Hello Martin,<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Nice site and blog.<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I seem to rec!<br> all that
when loaded strings first came out (25 yrs ago?)<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; that some of the evidence
for their use was found in the small diameter<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; holes in some lute bridges.
To maintain string tensions at around<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp;
&nbsp; present day levels the hypothesis was therefore that the old
bass<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; strings would
have been dense than plain gut - hence 'loaded'.<br clear="none!
">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I also recall that somebody (m!
ight have been Eph Segerman) at the time<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; also pointed out an
alternative for such relatively small diameter<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; holes: that the tensions of
the bass strings might be much lower than<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; the upper courses. In short
just as you're suggesting. My experience of<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; doing this at the time was
that one needed to play very close to the!<br> <br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; bridge to gain any
projection and, !<br> of course, this is precisely what<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; most old sources (from
c.1600 onwards) tell us. So you may be right -<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; that basses were
often(always?) at a significantly lower tension than<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &!
amp;nbsp; the upper courses.<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp;
&nbsp; Having said this, I did like Mimmo's loaded strings very much
and, of<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; course, they
also possibly indicate loading because of their<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; distinctive colour. All
food for thought......<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp;
&nbsp; regards,<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp;
&nbsp; Martyn<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;
__________________________________________________________________<br
clear="none">&gt;<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp;
&nbsp; From: Martin Shepherd &lt;<a rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>" target="_blank"
href="mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:martin@lute!
shop.co.uk" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</!
a>"><a ymailto="mailto:martin@l"; href="mailto:martin@l";>martin@l</a>!<br>
uteshop.co.uk</a>&gt;<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp;
&nbsp; To: Lute List &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>" target="_blank"
href="mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>"><a
ymailto="mailto:[email protected]";
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a></a>&gt;<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Thursday, 4 August
2016, 12:51<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Subject:
[LUTE] blog post<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Hi
All,<br clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Just to let you
know that I have put up a new blog post - let me know<br clear=!
"none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; your thoughts.<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; [1]<a rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank" href="<a
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";
target="_blank">http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a>"><a
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";
target="_blank">http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a></a><br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Best wishes,<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Martin<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; ---<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; This email has been checked
for viruses by Avast antivirus s!<br> oftware.<br
clear="none">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; [2]<a rel="nofollow"
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