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Eph Segerman wrote about Mersenne's stringing (and the thickness of the basses)
in, I think, the 1970s and I believe he did string a lute this way. Â It was
partly his feeling that such thick plain gut strings were unacceptable (even to
the Old Ones) which, I think, led him and Djillda Abbott to look into roped
string construction.
MH
From: jean-michel Catherinot <[email protected]>
To: Martin Shepherd <[email protected]>; Martyn Hodgson
<[email protected]>; Lute List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2016, 8:28
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: blog post
What Mersenne says: has anybody ever tried Mersenne stringing?
Le Jeudi 4 août 2016 17h50, Martin Shepherd <[email protected]> a
écrit :
Dear Martyn (and All),
I'm not ruling out the possibility of loaded strings, but I do think the
evidence from bridge holes is mixed, in the sense that we would have to
be absolutely certain that a bridge with small holes was original.
Even with modern gut strings it's possible to string a 6c lute with only
plain gut (well, high twist or whatever) in the bass and also a 13c swan
neck lute! The difficult cases are the 8 to 10 course lutes, the 13c
bass rider type, also the liuto attiorbato, for all of which loaded
basses might well be the answer.
I can't send attachments to the list but I'm sending you another
painting from 1576 which shows strings very clearly and they're
remarkably thin.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 04/08/2016 14:55, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
>Â Â Hello Martin,
>Â Â Nice site and blog.
>Â Â I seem to recall that when loaded strings first came out (25 yrs ago?)
>Â Â that some of the evidence for their use was found in the small diameter
>Â Â holes in some lute bridges. To maintain string tensions at around
>Â Â present day levels the hypothesis was therefore that the old bass
>Â Â strings would have been dense than plain gut - hence 'loaded'.
>Â Â I also recall that somebody (might have been Eph Segerman) at the time
>Â Â also pointed out an alternative for such relatively small diameter
>Â Â holes: that the tensions of the bass strings might be much lower than
>Â Â the upper courses. In short just as you're suggesting. My experience of
>Â Â doing this at the time was that one needed to play very close to the
>Â Â bridge to gain any projection and, of course, this is precisely what
>Â Â most old sources (from c.1600 onwards) tell us. So you may be right -
>Â Â that basses were often(always?) at a significantly lower tension than
>Â Â the upper courses.
>Â Â Having said this, I did like Mimmo's loaded strings very much and, of
>Â Â course, they also possibly indicate loading because of their
>Â Â distinctive colour. All food for thought......
>Â Â regards,
>Â Â Martyn
>Â Â Â __________________________________________________________________
>
>Â Â From: Martin Shepherd <[email protected]>
>Â Â To: Lute List <[email protected]>
>Â Â Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:51
>Â Â Subject: [LUTE] blog post
>Â Â Hi All,
>Â Â Just to let you know that I have put up a new blog post - let me know
>Â Â your thoughts.
>Â Â [1]http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/
>Â Â Best wishes,
>Â Â Martin
>Â Â ---
>Â Â This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>Â Â [2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>Â Â To get on or off this list see list information at
>Â Â [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>Â Â --
>
> References
>
>Â Â 1. http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/
>Â Â 2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>Â Â 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
---
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<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
Sans-Serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5559"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5560">Eph Segerman wrote about Mersenne's
stringing (and the thickness of the basses) in, I think, the 1970s and I
believe he did string a lute this way. It was partly his feeling that
such thick plain gut strings were unacceptable (even to the Old Ones) which, I
think, led him and Djillda Abbott to look into roped string
construction.</span></div><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5559"><span><br></span></div><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5559"><span>MH</span></div><div
class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5627"><br><br></div><div
class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5803" style="display:
block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue!
, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 13px;"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5802"> <div style="font-family:
HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;
font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5801"> <div dir="ltr">
<font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> jean-michel Catherinot
<[email protected]><br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">To:</span></b> Martin Shepherd <[email protected]>; Martyn
Hodgson <[email protected]>; Lute List
<[email protected]> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 10 August 2016, 8:28<br> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [LUTE] Re: blog post<br>
</font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5800"><br><div id="yiv2720726738"><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5799"><div style="!
color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, He!
lvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5798">What Mersenne says: has anybody ever
tried Mersenne stringing?<br><div id="yiv2720726738"><div
id="yiv2720726738yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9789"><div
id="yiv2720726738yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9788"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div
dir="ltr" id="yiv2720726738yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6315"><span
id="yiv2720726738yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6483"><img
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yiv2720726738inline-image-guid-40f452ff-a065-08d4-1874-196d8df0db3a
yiv2720726738rte-inline-saved-image"
id="yiv2720726738yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_6482"
src="cid:[email protected]" alt="Image en ligne"
style="width:100%;max-width:800px;max-height:210px;"
data-id="1f875d36-c711-be16-9990-0fe5f103a953"><b!
r clear="none"></span></div> <div
id="yiv2720726738yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470811701823_9795"
class="yiv2720726738qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div
class="yiv2720726738yqt5440112712"
id="yiv2720726738yqt67837"></div></div></div></div><div
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5819"> <div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida
Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5818">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida
Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5817">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> Le Jeudi 4 août 2016 17h50, Martin
Shepherd <[email protected]> a écrit :<br clear="none"></font></div>
<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv2720726738y_msg_container"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470817065891_5816">Dear Martyn (and All),<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">I'm not ruling out the possibil!
ity of loaded strings, but I do think the <br clear="none">evidence fro!
m bridge holes is mixed, in the sense that we would have to <br
clear="none">be absolutely certain that a bridge with small holes was
original.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Even with modern gut strings it's
possible to string a 6c lute with only <br clear="none">plain gut (well, high
twist or whatever) in the bass and also a 13c swan <br clear="none">neck
lute! The difficult cases are the 8 to 10 course lutes, the 13c <br
clear="none">bass rider type, also the liuto attiorbato, for all of which
loaded <br clear="none">basses might well be the answer.<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">I can't send attachments to the list but I'm sending you another
<br clear="none">painting from 1576 which shows strings very clearly and
they're <br clear="none">remarkably thin.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Best
wishes,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Martin<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">On 04/08/2016 14:55, Martyn Hodgson wrote:<br
clear="none">> Hello Marti!
n,<br clear="none">> Nice site and blog.<br
clear="none">> I seem to recall that when loaded strings first
came out (25 yrs ago?)<br clear="none">> that some of the
evidence for their use was found in the small diameter<br
clear="none">> holes in some lute bridges. To maintain string
tensions at around<br clear="none">> present day levels the
hypothesis was therefore that the old bass<br clear="none">>
strings would have been dense than plain gut - hence 'loaded'.<br
clear="none">> I also recall that somebody (might have been
Eph Segerman) at the time<br clear="none">> also pointed out
an alternative for such relatively small diameter<br clear="none">>
holes: that the tensions of the bass strings might be much lower
than<br clear="none">> the upper courses. In short just as
you're suggesting. My experience !
of<br clear="none">> doing this at the time was that o!
ne needed to play very close to the<br clear="none">> bridge
to gain any projection and, of course, this is precisely what<br
clear="none">> most old sources (from c.1600 onwards) tell us.
So you may be right -<br clear="none">> that basses were
often(always?) at a significantly lower tension than<br clear="none">>
the upper courses.<br clear="none">> Having said this,
I did like Mimmo's loaded strings very much and, of<br clear="none">>
course, they also possibly indicate loading because of their<br
clear="none">> distinctive colour. All food for
thought......<br clear="none">> regards,<br
clear="none">> Martyn<br clear="none">>
__________________________________________________________________<br
clear="none">><br clear="none">> From: Martin Shepherd
<<a rel="nofollow" shape=!
"rect" ymailto="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank"
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>><br
clear="none">> To: Lute List <<a rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank"
href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>><br
clear="none">> Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:51<br
clear="none">> Subject: [LUTE] blog post<br
clear="none">> Hi All,<br clear="none">> Just
to let you know that I have put up a new blog post - let me know<br
clear="none">> your thoughts.<br clear="none">>
[1]<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";>http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a><br
clear="none">> Best wishes,<br clear="none">>
Martin<br clear="none">> &!
nbsp; ---<br clear="none">> This email has been check!
ed for viruses by Avast antivirus software.<br clear="none">>
[2]<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus";>https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><br
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target="_blank"
href="http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/";>http://luteshop.co.uk/some-thoughts-on-string-tension/</a><br
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