I have a couple of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that
is an entirely different brow level!
RT
On 12/25/2017 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:
Interesting that you mention Taylor Swift and the lute. A sound
engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and
is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand
performances. He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and
very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest,
direct, and convincing music. We're OK with that.
RA
__________________________________________________________________
From: [1][email protected] [2]<[email protected]> on
behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM
To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look
for
another
instrument for myself.
Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that
permeates the
commercial mass culture.
Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash
against mass production,
and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
RT
On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
> Interesting mail, Tristan.
> While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute
flourish in
> the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is
actually
> in more popular types of music.
> I think a few factors might block that though:
> 1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his
videos (If
> I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and
that
> fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people
don't
> know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
> 2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or
want to
> buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced
Pakistani
> lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough,
would
> do wonders to the lute world.
> 3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of
the old
> music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example)
suddenly
> started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would
> definitely see a large influx of new players. Having
intabulations of
> popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to
bring
> the instrument out of obscurity.
> The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems
of
> French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool
(but
> obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and
warm
> tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my
opinion).
> I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above
problems.
> On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
> [4]<[1][email protected]> wrote:
>
> This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to
> explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
> Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and
more
> of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh
no -
> back in the pundaemonium...)
> 1. The audience for Early Music (even really early music) is
bigger
> than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik").
> Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general
audience,
> you can always assume it is because of a great sense of
traditional
> tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely
> popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences.
> In Europe, there's Arvo PÃÆärt who left the path of atonality
and
> serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well
based in
> the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for
> example).
> Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an
even
> more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass standpoint)
> Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part
of
> the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others
have
> treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move:
> By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of
> popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of
time for
> a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version",
> establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more
> successful than others.
> Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal
piece
> of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really
get
> what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me
that
> though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles
of
> special music do not represent the reality of most people.
> Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly
fantastic
> movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today,
which
> is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real
orchestra.
> But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be
> ridiculed.
> 2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is
completely
> going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex
or
> well set music of "non-classical new music", there is:
> a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and
often
> deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music,
embracing
> concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint,
though
> often very fast paced.
> b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to
"New
> Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never
> reach.
> Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) maybe "Alarm will
Sound", a
> chamber orchestra from New York, that plays complex Electronic
Music
> arrangements.
> "Ensemble Resonanz" in Hamburg, who are for years getting
their
> foot into the club scene, attract new audiences for "New
Music",
> while also playing Early Music (and everything in between).
They are
> not afraid to play Perotin and Philip Glass in the same
concert, or
> have Finnish electronic musician Jimi Tenor write music for
them.
> Other ensembles in other countries and cities might try similar
> things, though when I search on youtube, such fruitful
crossovers
> seem rare.
> c) Computer and Video game music.
> The Japanese have now for years a very healthy relationship to
music
> composed for video games. It is completely normal to hear the
Tokyo
> Phil play the Super Mario Bros. theme, or a Legend of Zelda
Medley.
> These compositions are often surprisingly good and well
arranged,
> because - in reverse - classically trained composers have no
fear
> writing for a video game.
> If you look on youtube, there are literally thousands of videos
of
> teenagers playing video game music on their piano, guitar,
ukulele,
> etc., some even forming little ensembles, making even their own
> arrangements.
> 3. Sounds familiar? Well, the Lute repertoire fits exactly
these
> purposes - you want crazy Ricercars for the outgoing
> experimentalists, some popular songs, some dance music, you
copy
> your favourite tunes, make mixtapes (Lute books), copy music
from
> friends etc.
> Some hits appear everywhere, some gems (nearly) get lost.
> The lute is an instrument that appeals to Metal/Rock people,
> because it allows great versatile styles more intense, somehow
> brighter, louder and more subtle than a modern guitar, and it's
> Medievalish cool.
> A cittern might even be considered the "electric guitar" of its
> time.
> I don't know what happend to the group "Pantagruel", but the
leader
> of the band had deeper experiences with rock music, his Early
music
> interpretations felt very engaging.
> Or maybe someone remembers the late Owain Phyfe.
> This is the attitude at least I am looking for.
> The lute is great to sing to, and it doesn't matter if it's
Dowland
> or Bob Dylan, it will still sound great. Lute is for songs.
> Today's dance music might be difficult to recreate on a lute,
but
> with some percussion, this could be achieved.
> And last but not least: there are tons of Fantasy RPG's with
catchy
> kind of medieval/renaissance-ish tunes that people would love
to
> play on the lute.
> And the movie scores again.
> 4. For some time now, German music shoppe giant "Thomann" has
taken
> Lute instruments into their portfolio. These are specially
> commissioned lines of instruments - I don't know if one of you
had
> tried one of those Lutes, Theorbos or Renaissance/Baroque
guitars.
> I'd be interested to hear about experiences with these
instruments,
> as it seemed to me that these are not the infamous Pakistani
> instruments.
> Well - basically you can now get a Lute for $500 if you don't
mind
> the clean cut flat rose etc., similar to Le Luth Dor̮̩, which
seems
> to make similar restrictions to achieve a lower price.
> If Lutists and Luthiers overcome the resentment of these
production
> methods and instead encouraging lowering the bar for the huge
number
> of amateur guitarists, who might not be able to afford a real
hand
> crafted master lute. These people might even try the original
stuff,
> as they have not only the actual instrument, but also a great
> popular tab system (French) and lots of great original pieces
at
> hand in the internets.
> 5. Conclusion:
> I see a brighter future for the lute. Neither in the Early
Music
> scene, nor in the New Music scene, but in popular music through
the
> playing of popular music on the Lute.
> Some steps are made, but it's on you to widen your repertoire a
bit.
> What you can do: Play Metallica or Katie Perry, or Depeche Mode
on
> the lute, and if your intabulations are any good, other people
will
> want to play them. You will at least encourage them to try it
on
> their guitar, where they will come to the conclusion that the
lute
> might just be the cooler instrument after all. Of course there
were
> no copyright issues back then...
> This would have to be sorted out.
> There should be more themed intabulation contests, or even
> "intabulation and fantasy" Paladin style.
> Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, it's all
there.
> Don't let guitarists be the only ones :)
> Here's some inspiration:
> [2][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA
> [3][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo
> [4][7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ
> [5][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU
> [6][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk
> Props to those people, maybe some of them are here on the list.
>
> Am 22.12.2017 um 20:13 schrieb Ron Andrico:
>
> Both Chris and Gilbert have made excellent points: New music
for
> the
> lute is not widely accepted because the lute is considered to
be a
> representative emblem of early music, and new music for the
lute is
> not
> taught in conservatories because lute teachers holding
conservatory
> posts must adhere to the received and accepted idea of what
defines
> early music.
> I have expended a great deal of time and energy researching
and
> digesting information describing the arc of the early music
revival
> and, in my view, the lute simply will not survive the
apparent
> downward
> spiral and eventual demise of the early music revival -
unless the
> instrument somehow transcends the bounds of its
associations with
> early music. New music for the lute may help the instrument
> survive,
> but it will not happen without certain compromises.
> I'll have much more to say on the topic in the coming year.
Watch
> this
> space.
> RA
>
> --
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> [7][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [11]mailto:[email protected]
> 2. [12]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA
> 3. [13]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo
> 4. [14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ
> 5. [15]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU
> 6. [16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk
> 7. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. mailto:[email protected]
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. mailto:[1][email protected]
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. mailto:[email protected]
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA
13. https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo
14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ
15. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU
16. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
