Thanks, Ron. Good points. I like that. As to the tuning down and up a step. Yes, it's a pain but I wonder if some players split the 6th course into two fundamentals a step apart. Similarly it could be done on a 5th course of a 5-c lute (and one would suddenly be able to play a number of Spinacino pieces on it, btw). They'd have to be seperated a bit more and we'd see evidence of it in surviving bridges/nuts. To be fair, I haven't heard of such from survivor examinations. If they were two fundamentals a step apart it would make sense to wrap that thumb on the bottom string for a doubled course. It's a fine point to listen for and maybe the cognescenti would have a cow but a couple of dancers or a room full of talkers would hardly care. I gather there were more tunings (and approaches to string striking) than we give the print/mss. credit for. Dalza has a suite where both 6 and 5 are down a step, Capirola condones a split and Ganassi loves his variant tunings. Pros would probably have more than one instrument. This is just speculation. Different players played for different audiences on different ocassions for different reasons. Then there were the instruments, strings available, pieces and player educations. Circa 1500 is pretty opaque at this point but I'm curious to pursue what might have happened though we'll never prove one thing or another. Sean
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Ron Andrico <[1][email protected]> wrote: On guitar, the thumb typically plays the F-natural and F-sharp (first and second frets), as well as bass notes up the neck when necessary. I would say that in lute music such bass notes are mostly more a function of moving polyphonic lines rather than part of a chord shape. Sean, as to your speculation that the sixth course may have tuned down a step and noted at the second fret when necessary, I doubt it. It is much less of pain to tune the course down and up again as necessary than to have to constantly fret what could easily be an open course. ____________________________________________________________ ______ From: [2][email protected] <[3][email protected]> on behalf of anotherdamn6c <[4][email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 7:33 PM To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Left thumb on the sixth. Thanks, Jean-Marie and Ron. I'll check those images when I get home. I'm just trying to figure out which chords or notes that facilitates. Sean On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 12:18 PM Jean-Marie Poirier <[1][5][email protected]> wrote: Have a look there : [1][2][6]http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html Best, Jean-Marie Le 26 avr. 2018 à 20:47, Ron Andrico <[2][3][7][email protected]> a à ©crit : Using the thumb to fret the sixth course was absolutely an element of 16th century lute playing, based on iconography and a few mentions in historical sources that escape me at the moment. The 20th-21st century revivalist prejudice against this technique is and has been advanced by lutenists who start out as classical guitarists. Full stop. I seldom use the technique on the lute, mostly because the neck of my 72cm six-course is a bit clubby. But I do use the technique on guitar. It was good enough for Reverend Gary Davis, and it's good enough for me. RA ____________________________________________________________ ______ From: [3][4][8][email protected] <[4][5][9][email protected]> on behalf of anotherdamn6c <[5][6][10][email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:41 PM To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Left thumb on the sixth. Hi all, I've always wondered: under what circumstances was the thumb around the neck to stop the 6th course thought to be an advantage? We see its use sporadically in the 16th century in occasional iconography but I gather it is not (and was not) recommended. Personally I can't do it and still have any facility on other courses--and it's painful. But I see it in contemporary guitar playing so it seems to work for some. Shot in the dark: Were they tuning the 6th course down a step and this trick gave them the 6th at nominal pitch? 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[44]http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 3. mailto:[45][email protected] 4. mailto:[46][email protected] 5. mailto:[47][email protected] 6. mailto:[48][email protected] 7. [49]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. [50]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 9. [51]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. [52]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. [53]http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 12. mailto:[54][email protected] 13. mailto:[55][email protected] 14. mailto:[56][email protected] 15. mailto:[57][email protected] 16. [58]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 17. [59]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 18. [60]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 19. [61]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[email protected] 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 16. mailto:[email protected] 17. mailto:[email protected] 18. mailto:[email protected] 19. mailto:[email protected] 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 24. mailto:[email protected] 25. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 26. mailto:[email protected] 27. mailto:[email protected] 28. mailto:[email protected] 29. mailto:[email protected] 30. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 31. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 32. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 33. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 34. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 35. mailto:[email protected] 36. mailto:[email protected] 37. mailto:[email protected] 38. mailto:[email protected] 39. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 40. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 41. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 42. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 43. mailto:[email protected] 44. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 45. mailto:[email protected] 46. mailto:[email protected] 47. mailto:[email protected] 48. mailto:[email protected] 49. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 50. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 51. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 52. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 53. http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/index.html 54. mailto:[email protected] 55. mailto:[email protected] 56. mailto:[email protected] 57. mailto:[email protected] 58. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 59. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 60. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 61. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
