Is your current USB to serial adapter an entire cable? For example, one side is a USB plug and the other is a DB25 male plug? With no other parts in between the two?
Kurt On Wed, Apr 10, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: > Thanks Kurt. But we already know that my current usb/serial adapter (which is > a single unit usb/serial cable) cause the 102 screen to dim. In other words, > that's where the problem is. > > So I don't see how a new null modem cable plugged into my faulty usb/serial > adapter/cable will help the situation. > > Tom m. > > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 12:51 PM Kurt McCullum <[email protected]> wrote: >> __ >> Tom, >> >> The cables that Brian is recommending will attach to your existing usb to >> serial adapter. So the connection would work as follows. >> >> Laptop USB Port -> USB to Serial Adapter -> DB9 to Db25 Null modem Cable -> >> Model T >> >> Kurt >> >> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: >>> Thanks Brian. Turns out your cable links weren't in my thread at all. They >>> were in a different thread completely which I wasn't part of, and wasn't >>> following. >>> >>> Here's the situation. Those two cables you recommend in that other thread >>> are null modem cables. Fine - but I've already learned the problem I have >>> is with my usb/serial cable. Soon as I plug it into the 102, the 102 screen >>> dims, which may be caused (I've been told) by crossed wiring in that cable. >>> >>> So, even if I do buy another cable (one of the null modem cables), I'd >>> still need some kind of usb/serial "converter/adapter". There's no usb on >>> the recommended null modem cables, and there's no serial port on the Dell >>> laptop or desktop. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Tom M. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 12:39 PM Brian White <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> In one post, I provided a link directly to two items, a specific cables2go >>>> cable and a specific sabrent usb-serial adapter, so that you wouldn't have >>>> to make sense of the full page where that info came from. >>>> >>>> And also linked that full page, which includes the startech and others. >>>> >>>> http://tandy.wiki/Model_100_102_200_600_Serial_Cable >>>> >>>> I know reading that full page might not make 100% sense, because it's a >>>> lot of verbiage, and there are many cables listed there and they all work >>>> for this so how do you choose, and some parts are kind of cryptic, which >>>> is why I pulled out the two parts to get. >>>> >>>> For instance the shorthand I used to document each cables wiring >>>> idiosyncracies, like "DCD<>DSR+DTR", I know that part is cryptic. When I >>>> was testing cables and assembling the info, I just needed to get the key >>>> details written down, and the form didn't matter. I could expand it to be >>>> more readable later. >>>> >>>> What those little things are showing is how each particular cable differs >>>> from the rs232 spec. >>>> >>>> For instance "DCD<>DSR+DTR" means that dsr and dtr are tied together on >>>> one end, and connected to dcd on the other end, and that it's the same on >>>> both ends in both directions. All other connections are according to the >>>> rs232 spec, and you get the pin numbers and positions from the rs232 spec. >>>> >>>> Some time when I want to spend more time on that page, I can expand those >>>> to a less cryptic form, (or anyone else can, it' s a wiki) but until then >>>> at least the knowledge is documented so that later I can refer to it. It's >>>> sort of like working notes until then. >>>> >>>> Mike Stein also provided a direct link to a specific monoprice cable. That >>>> one is good too. (it's on that page too for instance) >>>> >>>> All other cables you randomly find from wherever, probably aren't right >>>> without some kind of adapters, and there is no way to tell if the wiring >>>> is right except by knowing the rs232 spec and testing the connections. >>>> >>>> rs232 is not a single thing, it's a spec with a bunch of options and >>>> configurations. In order to use anything serial, you the user, actually >>>> has to understand that spec, or, you have to take the word of someone else >>>> who does, and says "this specific cable will work for this specific >>>> application". Plugging in any old cable without knowing how it's wired or >>>> what the different rs232 signals are for and how they work, will never >>>> work. Serial is not like usb or ethernet or headphones. >>>> >>>> For another example of ehat I mean, even when you finally get a correct >>>> serial cable for connecting your m100 to a pc, that cable won't be correct >>>> for connecting to a modem, or a plotter, etc. 3 different devices, 3 >>>> different cables, and yet all of them are valid correct serial cables even >>>> though they are all different from each other. >>>> >>>> The only way to make it work is to understand that and go read about >>>> serial cables so that you know enough that you could build your own from >>>> scratch, or continuity test any off the shelf cable to fully understand >>>> what it does. Or, buy one that is already known to be correct for this >>>> particular task. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> bkw >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 7:30 AM Thomas Morehouse <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Brian - you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> " >>>>> >>>>> The Cables2Go one I linked is all the same, except it also has rts/cts, >>>>> so it works with HTERM, as well as everything else. >>>>> >>>>> And finally, the StarTech one I linked, is also all the same, but >>>>> without shorting DCD to DSR, or shorting DTR to DSR, which means that >>>>> one should cause the least possible drain on any possibly weak power >>>>> rails in the M100. >>>>> >>>>> All this mystery has already been completely figured out and nailed >>>>> down. One mouse click and $7 later and you're done." >>>>> >>>>> I've gone through all your posts in this thread, and find no links for >>>>> Cables2go or StarTech. >>>>> >>>>> I'm absolutely going nuts here, trying to figure out how to do things, >>>>> and how to follow advice. One post with advice raises a question, someone >>>>> else tries to answer the question, then someone else tries to clarify the >>>>> answer to someone else's question. Really helpful to some, but >>>>> frustrating to me. >>>>> >>>>> Which post had those two links for the proper cables? I've now got two >>>>> usb/serial cables which don't seem to work, plus several male/male, >>>>> female/female, and DB9 to DB25 adapters. Total so far: $100. >>>>> >>>>> As I can't find the links Brian referred to, I don't want to guess and >>>>> buy yet another thing which might not work. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Tom M. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 9:34 PM Kurt McCullum <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> __ >>>>>> Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> Looks like you will need to either build or buy a cable. My two cents is >>>>>> below but I'm sure others will chime in. There are several options out >>>>>> there. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a description of what I do with all my Model-T units. I start >>>>>> with this DB25 to DB9 adapter which is just a regular DB9 to DB25 >>>>>> converter. I attach these with some 2.5mm (should be 2.6mm) screws to >>>>>> the Model-T so its always attached. >>>>>> https://www.sfcable.com/db9-female-to-db25-male-serial-mini-adapter.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Then I put one of these adapters in between the DB9 serial port and the >>>>>> 9-25 adapter which creates a null modem cable. >>>>>> https://www.sfcable.com/null-modem-adapter-db9-db25/db9-male-to-female-null-modem-mini-adapter.html >>>>>> >>>>>> For my T200 I have remove pin 1 from the null modem adapter to make it >>>>>> happy but that's a quick fix with needle nose pliers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Everybody has there preference on cable setup so eventually you will >>>>>> come up with a solution that works for you. Sounds like what you have is >>>>>> working for text transfers so that's a start. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kurt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, at 5:59 PM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks Kurt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Testing the DB9-DB25 adapter only - not the usb/serial cable - I have >>>>>>> continuity NOT from pin 4 of the DB9 to pin 6 of the DB25. I have >>>>>>> continuity from pin 4 of the DB9 to pin 20 of the DB25. That's using >>>>>>> the numbers printed at the pins themselves. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should I even bother testing the others you suggest? Sounds like the >>>>>>> adapter already fails the test. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom M. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 8:48 PM Kurt McCullum <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> __ >>>>>>>> Ignore the USB to serial piece of the puzzle. As Brian said, it's just >>>>>>>> a serial port. Test the 9 to 25 adapter. One end will be female so >>>>>>>> it's easier to put something like the end of a paper clip into one >>>>>>>> hole at a time then put the probe on that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kurt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, at 5:22 PM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: >>>>>>>>> OK - looks like I wasn't clear. In Kurt's post, he writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Take one probe of the meter and put it on pin 4 of the DB9 and the >>>>>>>>> other on pin 6 of the DB25. It should beep or light up (however you >>>>>>>>> meter functions to indicate a connection). Then do the same for the >>>>>>>>> DSR line on pin 6 to pin 20. And finally the RTS and CTS pins 7->5 >>>>>>>>> and 8-> 4. If they are crossed in some manner, then you will not get >>>>>>>>> a beep or a light." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If the usb/serial cable is a single unit (usb at one end, DB9 at the >>>>>>>>> other), how do I put one probe of the meter on the DB9 and the other >>>>>>>>> probe of the meter on the DB25? There's no DB25 on the cable, unless >>>>>>>>> I plug the 9-25 adapter into the DB9 - but then I can't put a probe >>>>>>>>> on the DB9. Jeez I feel dense. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm really sorry I can't follow this, but maybe I'm just overlooking >>>>>>>>> something really simple? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>> Tom M. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 7:56 PM Brian K. White <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> You don't check continuity on the usb-serial adapter. That isn't >>>>>>>>>> just a >>>>>>>>>> cable, it's really a peripheral like a disk drive or a printer, it >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> happens to be a peripheral that all fits entirely inside the plug >>>>>>>>>> housing on one end of it. There is no simple direct wire mapping >>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>> the usb pins and the serial pins. Between the usb pins and the >>>>>>>>>> serial >>>>>>>>>> pins, there is circuit board with a chip and a few other components >>>>>>>>>> which is converting and translatine between two entirely different >>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>> of signals and protocols. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You treat the usb-serial adapter as just a serial *port*, and ignore >>>>>>>>>> that it looks like a wire. Just pretend it's like a serial port >>>>>>>>>> built in >>>>>>>>>> to the back of an old desktop. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You check the continuity of the serial cable, which IS "just a >>>>>>>>>> cable". >>>>>>>>>> Or, really, you check the continuity of the combined serial cable >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> any null-modem and gender-changer adapters, and treat that all >>>>>>>>>> together >>>>>>>>>> as one "cable". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> bkw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/9/19 6:56 PM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > Thanks Kurt. I'm even denser than usual tonight I guess. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > From earlier posts, seems the problem (102 screen dimming) is >>>>>>>>>> > likely >>>>>>>>>> > caused by the usb/serial cable. One end of the cable is a usb >>>>>>>>>> > plug; >>>>>>>>>> > other end is the DB9. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > So I'm afraid I don't know how to test continuity on the cable. I >>>>>>>>>> > can >>>>>>>>>> > find pin 4 of the DB9 - but where does the DB25 fit in the picture? >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Or, are you saying to test the cable with the DB9/DB25 adapter >>>>>>>>>> > plugged >>>>>>>>>> > into the cable? >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Sorry to be the dolt again. >>>>>>>>>> > Tom M. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 10:57 AM Kurt McCullum <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > There are store bought cables that work well. Brian has done a >>>>>>>>>> > great job putting together a list of those cables. For my machines >>>>>>>>>> > I have a mixture of custom made cables or slim adapters. Both >>>>>>>>>> > methods work and give me the pinout below. When you get the cable >>>>>>>>>> > right, your M102 will be happy. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > But to the question at hand, don't tear apart your cable. Check >>>>>>>>>> > it. Right now you know that pins 2,3 and 5 are all going to the >>>>>>>>>> > right locations. You will need to check pins 4,6,7 and 8. Since >>>>>>>>>> > those are paired lines (4/6, 7/8) one or both pairs will be >>>>>>>>>> > flipped. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > If you have a multi-meter which has a continuity check on it then >>>>>>>>>> > you test both ends of the wire. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Here is what I have found to work on all my machines and I include >>>>>>>>>> > this in the mComm manual. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > 7 Wire Cable >>>>>>>>>> > PC >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Model-T >>>>>>>>>> > DCD >>>>>>>>>> > 1 >>>>>>>>>> > NC >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > RX >>>>>>>>>> > 2 >>>>>>>>>> > → >>>>>>>>>> > 2 >>>>>>>>>> > TX >>>>>>>>>> > TX >>>>>>>>>> > 3 >>>>>>>>>> > ← >>>>>>>>>> > 3 >>>>>>>>>> > RX >>>>>>>>>> > DTR >>>>>>>>>> > 4 >>>>>>>>>> > ← >>>>>>>>>> > 6 >>>>>>>>>> > DSR >>>>>>>>>> > GND >>>>>>>>>> > 5 >>>>>>>>>> > ↔ >>>>>>>>>> > 7 >>>>>>>>>> > GND >>>>>>>>>> > DSR >>>>>>>>>> > 6 >>>>>>>>>> > ← >>>>>>>>>> > 20 >>>>>>>>>> > DTR >>>>>>>>>> > RTS >>>>>>>>>> > 7 >>>>>>>>>> > → >>>>>>>>>> > 5 >>>>>>>>>> > CTS >>>>>>>>>> > CTS >>>>>>>>>> > 8 >>>>>>>>>> > ← >>>>>>>>>> > 4 >>>>>>>>>> > RTS >>>>>>>>>> > RI >>>>>>>>>> > 9 >>>>>>>>>> > NC >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Take one probe of the meter and put it on pin 4 of the DB9 and the >>>>>>>>>> > other on pin 6 of the DB25. It should beep or light up (however >>>>>>>>>> > you meter functions to indicate a connection). Then do the same >>>>>>>>>> > for the DSR line on pin 6 to pin 20. And finally the RTS and CTS >>>>>>>>>> > pins 7->5 and 8-> 4. If they are crossed in some manner, then you >>>>>>>>>> > will not get a beep or a light. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Hope that makes sense. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Kurt >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, at 7:38 AM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >> Thanks for the comments gents. Learn something every day. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> Kurt, on the "crossed wires" issue, what is the procedure for >>>>>>>>>> >> fixing the problem? I sure don't want to pull something apart, >>>>>>>>>> >> or buy even *more* adapters! >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> >> Tom M. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 10:03 AM Kurt McCullum <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> What you are describing happens to me when the either the >>>>>>>>>> >> CTS/RTS or DTR/DSR wires in your cable are crossed. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> Example. The CTS pin listens (checks for voltage) to the RTS >>>>>>>>>> >> pin on the other end. If you have a cable where RTS goes >>>>>>>>>> >> straight to RTS and CTS going straight to CTS, then you have >>>>>>>>>> >> two ends of the cable both feeding voltage to the same wire. >>>>>>>>>> >> This causes the screen to go dim. the DTR/DSR pins can >>>>>>>>>> >> produce the same issue. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> Kurt >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, at 5:33 AM, Thomas Morehouse wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> Now that I've got my usb/serial link working (M102 to Dell >>>>>>>>>> >>> laptop), I notice the 102's screen get quite dim when the >>>>>>>>>> >>> cable is in the 102's 25 pin serial port. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Doesn't need to be connected to the Dell. Just when you plug >>>>>>>>>> >>> the usb/serial cable into the 102. Unplug the cable, 102 >>>>>>>>>> >>> screen returns to normal visibility. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Something to worry about? or just live with it? I wouldn't >>>>>>>>>> >>> have thought the usb/serial cable chip would put such a >>>>>>>>>> >>> drain on the system. Happens with battery power, or even >>>>>>>>>> >>> with external 6 volt poweer. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> >>> Tom M. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>
