Chad, I am aware of the magnitude of the problem *IF* corruption occurs in RAID 
5. That is not even remotely relevant with a conversation about the probability 
of such corruption.

There appear to be two competing claims here:

1. RAID 5 itself is well known for having silent data corruption and should not 
be used.

2. Apple sold, until very recently a Mac OS X based, hardware RAID 5 solution, 
supposedly honoring a "do no evil, cause not harm" philosophy.

RAID 5 is not a new thing. Silent data corruption is not a new thing. I won't 
buy an argument suggesting Apple just figured this out recently and that's one 
of the reasons why they killed the Xserve RAID.

Chris Murphy

On Mar 9, 2011, at 1:51 PM, objectwerks inc wrote:

> 
> On Mar 9, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 9, 2011, at 1:35 PM, objectwerks inc wrote:
>> 
>>>>> The integrity of the data with files after any issues such as these may 
>>>>> be suspect, especially if the fileystem was on a RAID5 which is very well 
>>>>> known for silent data corruption. This is why RAID5 should not be used.
>>>> 
>>>> OK that's possibly a whole separate thread for qualifying such a 
>>>> statement. Apple has a supported product that uses RAID 5. I have clients 
>>>> with them and they've lost drives, and no data, and no data corruption. 
>>>> And an even larger sample size exists if filesystems other than jhfs+ are 
>>>> considered. RAID 5/6 are common with ext3, ext4, XFS and other file 
>>>> systems without anyone suggesting RAID 5 in particular is known for itself 
>>>> increasing the incidence of silent data corruption.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There is a reason why it is called silent data corruption.   They may not 
>>> know they have it.  It happens all the time and with HW raid 5 you may not 
>>> even know it for a long time.
>>> 
>>> This is the whole reason why ZFS was made.
>> 
>> ZFS was not made for combating this claim of RAID 5 specific silent data 
>> corruption, but rather silent data corruption in general.
> 
> And the difference is?   You corrupt one disk in a RAID 5 array and the whole 
> array is corrupted.
> 
>> 
>> RAID 5 employs parity. RAID 1 does not, nor do conventional non-arrayed 
>> jhfs+ volumes. While RAID parity is not as sophisticated at ZFS 
>> checksumming, it is certainly better than nothing. So there is some error 
>> detection and correction possible, so I'm not understanding how RAID 5 is 
>> "well known for silent data corruption" and should not be used. I think this 
>> is a rather remarkable claim.
>> 
>> 
>> Chris Murphy
> 
> 
> If you have one disk that has silent data corruption (and parity may not help 
> you at all as you calculate your new parity on the corrupted data) you 
> compound it with RAID 5.
> 
> http://www.raidinc.com/pdf/Silent%20Data%20Corruption%20Whitepaper.pdf
> 
> 
> http://boink.superatomic.com/2009/04/25/the-raid-5-write-hole/
> 
> 
> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=raid+5+silent+data+corruption&cp=24&qe=cmFpZCA1IHNpbGVudCBjb3JydXB0aW9u&qesig=0VyEUZb1ePVXqTxPyJd8vg&pkc=AFgZ2tkTDI1HqM7fc6R1egXasC-1CNF3wT4BG5rzsZmDlr4IGBRuaMW3LWOqaaHzeI1IQlVZ2T5WTE3o3LlGRR6gLiYOy2lsHA&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=0b&aqi=&aql=&oq=raid+5+silent+corruption&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.&fp=ef34c9a9ed856910
> 
> 
> 

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