Hey Cara and Scott,
LOL Cara! Well, you are the first person I've known with multi-
batteries, so I stand corrected on that. I still think it is far more
an exception than a rule. LOL.
Scott, yes, I like TOS way better than TNG. In fact, I'm a huge
Trekkie, and TNG is my least liked of the various series. BUt going
back on topic…
I totally agree about providing accurate information. That being said,
this whole line of discussion was prompted because Will specifically
posted false information because he was repeated complaints he'd heard
from quarters that were trying to down play the iPhone, or else was
misunderstanding the very highly technical context of those complaints.
I don't mean to down play your issues, but I truly do not believe this
is a problem for the overwhelming majority, and that's my point. :) It
really isn't about spin, but being thorough in the assessment. I
guarantee you that few, if any, others, on this list outside of
yourself are lamenting the inability to use SSH in the background. :)
I would just hate to see someone who has no use for something like
SSH, like Will, not try an iPhone because someone who did need it,
split hairs on the multi-tasking capabilities of the phone. I think we
do a disservice, sometimes, by trying to be so objective that we lose
sight of what people really need or want.
So it boils down to this. If you need open sockets, SSH, or similar
functionality in the background, then the iPHone has some limitations.
If you do not know what these words mean, or have no use for these
services, it will not impact you, and you can assume that you will be
able to multi-task just fine. :)
Josh de Lioncourt
…my other mail provider is an owl…
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:59 AM, Scott Bresnahan wrote:
>
> Hi, Josh,
>
> Phew, I think we agree too. [just don't say you
> like Trek:OS better than TNG although your
> earlier post about having an original
> communicator wallpaper is alarming]. But
> Yes your points make sense, but I'm seeing a
> little misinformation on both the radical PC
> right and radical MAc left. I'd hope my comments
> are more moderate in nature. :) I just don't
> think it does anyone any good if a realistic set
> of pros and cons about the iPhone can't be laid
> out without spin.
>
> I can't comment on the stats about who would miss
> the ability to keep a socket open in the
> background. I suspect, given the nature of IT
> management, it may be higher number than you
> think. I for one miss it, but yet, I still
> decided I could live without it. Do I whish I
> could, darn yes, but then my iPhone isn't my
> laptop or desktop. Although it's amazingly close.
>
> My philosophy for discussing technology like this
> is less on the tech stats, but rather asking the
> lay question of "What problem are you trying to
> solve?"" Then, showing how a given technology
> can be made to solve it. Sometimes the answer is
> yes that's easy, sometimes it's well, aren't you
> really wanting to do this? and sometimes it's ah,
> no, you can't do that easily because of xyz.
>
> Cheers,
> Scott
>
>
> .
>
> Well, as others have pointed out,
> there is a very, very small number of uses for which the push
> notification is not appropriate. However, as I said before, they've
> solved the vast majority of issues
> this way. I don't think we exactly disagree, but
> I think that the number of users who will
> actually be impacted by the limitations is
> extremely small, and that even for a lot of those
> who will be impacted, the pros will outweigh the
> cons. What I'm try towork through are the
> misconceptions, like Will Lomas put forth, that
> you can't move back and forth between multiple
> apps and essentially multi-task, and that point
> has been lost in an argument about technicalities
> that will effect less than a single percent of
> users. LOL. Your battery issue is likewise the
> same. It will impact a very, very tiny number of
> users. That doesn't mean the problem doesn't
> exist, but seeing it harped on about and latched
> onto by the nay sayers as an excuse to downplay
> the iPhone's advantages is frustrating.
>
> I hope this makes sense. I have never said, and
> would never say, that any device is perfect for
> everyone. I think the iPhone is more than
> adequate, and is in fact ideal, for a huge numbe
> rof users, and that by arguing things like this
> multi-tasking situation, you're confusing folks
> like Will Lomas who would be just fine with an
> iPhone, but think they won't because of
> complaints about SSH and IRC.
>
> Hope that makes more sense. :)
>
> Josh de Lioncourt
> Šmy other mail provider is an owlŠ
>
>
> Twitter: <http://twitter.com/Lioncourt>http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
> Music: <http://stage19music.com>http://stage19music.com
> Mac-cessibility: <http://www.Lioncourt.com>http://www.Lioncourt.com
> Blog:
> <http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com>http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
> GoodReads: <http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt>http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Scott Bresnahan wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Josh,
>
> Take a closer look at what is possible via push in the APIs and you
> may be surprised at how limiting it is. Your argument about Apple
> solving the problem by introducing push is more marketing hype than
> fact. At the core, you can't keep sockets open in the background
> which many RFC standards like irc, ssh, telnet etc depend. Apple's
> answer is well, rewrite the standard. That's not an answer. you
> cant' just rewrite every server platform out there to support Apple's
> whim of of a lame push notification method. If you're starting from
> scratch today, writing a new client and server platform, then sure,
> you can work around it. But there are a lot of pre existing
> technologies that won't work no matter how the app is coded simply
> because the problem is not with the client but the server piece the
> client is meant to communicate with. But again, this isn't a problem
> for most people, but only for those who need to multitask, like
> keeping multiple sessions open at a time.
>
> As for batteries, I agree that *most* people don't' have spare
> batteries. However, just because you haven't met them doesn't mean
> they don't exist. I had two spares back when I had an analog
> StarTac, and I know a small fraction of people who still have spare
> batteries for their phones today. Granted, these folks tend to like
> Star Trek the original series vs tng, but I digress.... not to
> mention I think they try to use their phones as laptops, but who am I
> to argue their inefficiency. :)
> .
>
> I can't believe I'm arguing the devils advocate on this..... did I
> mention I love my iPhone? But, it just doesn't do windows, so stop
> pretending it does. lol
>
>
> --Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --Scott
>
> >
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