-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan, I promised a last message on the last one and forgot I wanted to reply to this.
I want to be totally honest here, I didn't really think about this slapping anyone in the face when it happened. When I started the list, my thought process was like this. "Many unhappy community members, Macvisionaries abandoned for months, lets pick it up and not let it die." I considered macvisionaries 2.0, but I just went with what we all knew. I really was worried about stepping on a lot of toes. As this is a community, I'm going to ask the good folks over on the list what they'd like/prefer and we'll go from there. If they all want a new address with a new name, hopefully someone is more creative than I and that's what will happen. Thanks for bringing up this concern, I really appreciate it. As I've said a few times, I don't want to offend anyone. I've seen communities such as this die off with less issues and I don't want to see this one go. Thanks, On 8/26/2015 1:52 PM, Jonathan Mosen wrote: > Hi Tyler and all. As someone who has participated in these sorts > of forums for around 30 years, dating back to the FidoNet days, I > generally have a policy of not fuelling the flames by making > comments on the drama. I've also run many lists in my time, and > like you, I don't agree that a totally hands-off approach works, > especially because even if you filter the problem child, it can be > difficult to filter the responses to the problem child. Then you > get yourself into a situation where you spend so much time tweaking > your filters, you may as well just unsubscribe, which I've been > considering doing. When the person who is the source of at least > 80% of the current problems resubscribed to this list, I thought > the cycle would repeat itself, as I've seen it do on several > occasions on this list. It goes like this, things start off OK, > then the posts get increasingly inappropriate, then people object > to his behaviour, then, finally, he throws a tantrum and > unsubscribes, and we all get on with our lives. For whatever > reason, the latter part of this sequence hasn't happened as quickly > as it usually does. This list needs a moderator. It does not have > one right now, it only has an owner. So congratulations to you for > starting another list. It's a free world and anyone can start any > list on any topic they choose, and people can make a decision to > subscribe or not based on whether they think it will add value and > is worthy of their time. I would seriously consider subscribing, > but will not, for one important reason. I think using the name > MacVisionaries is dishonest, inappropriate, and taking advantage of > years of effort on the part of others. I am not in any way > suggesting that you are a dishonest person. I am merely referring > to this particular action. MacVisionaries is a strong brand. It's a > rapidly deteriorating one, but it has helped many people. Just > because you want to start a new list, doesn't mean this one is > going away any time soon. When people use a search engine to find > MacVisionaries, and get two lists, how are they supposed to > differentiate? If your list is going to be well-moderated, and > there will be people actively ensuring it adds value to those > contributing, why would you want to be associated with a brand > that, presently, is in trouble? I would strongly urge you, as a > sign of respect for all this current list has given to the > community, and more to the point, the individuals who created this > list, to do the right thing and think of a name of your own. All > the best with it, whatever you decide to do. > > > Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, > tutorials and training http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org> > >> On 27/08/2015, at 5:15 AM, Littlefield, Tyler >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hello: I actually tried for the best of both worlds here. I’ve >> reached out to Cara numerous times, even mentioned her on twitter >> and gotten no response. This was the last solution for me, but >> one which I really do think will work. So I do want it known that >> I have exhausted all possibilities short of banging on her door. >> >> thanks, >>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing >>> would be to have new moderators on this list, rather than >>> fragmenting the community. I know that is not a new idea as >>> several have mentioned the same idea. I also don't agree with >>> the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send email to a >>> list of several hundred people, you are coming into their >>> homes. And you did not have a right to abuse that privilege. >>> Nor should several hundred people be expected to write >>> filtersbecause of one or two outliers who make itunpleasant for >>> everybody. If a list is said to be moderated, people who >>> signed up for that list have a right to expect that the rules >>> will be followed and that those who do not follow them >>> consistently will be taken off the list. If you like >>> unmoderated lists, start one, or, if you want to check one out, >>> go check out the eyes freelist. The last time I was on there, >>> which was admittedly many months ago, it was horrible. I'm not >>> arguing for one strike and you're out or heavy-handed >>> moderation. But when it becomes clear overtime that a few >>> people simply cannot follow simple guidelines, then a >>> moderator needs to take action, or a new moderator needs to be >>> found. So, I guess I'm joining my voice with the chorus of >>> those who say that in the best of all worlds, this list would >>> remain but would have an active moderator who did his or her >>> job. Mary >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:56 AM, Littlefield, Tyler >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Scott, There's a vast difference in overly moderating and > moderating of those who make the community unpleasant for others. > For example, should someone receive an email cursing at them (which > happens here pretty frequently), the problem gets solved with a > moderation. Should it continue, said individual is removed from the > community. > > I'm not proposing that overly prolicing makes a difference, just > that it's possible with an active list owner to create a community > conducive to a place where people can ask questions and provide > help, etc. Can you imagine how much cleaner our inboxes would be (I > myself am somewhat at fault here, as I've said) if we were to > mostly elimenate all the side bickering? On 8/26/2015 7:46 AM, > Scott Granados wrote: >>>>>> I’m not sure moderation = good community. That’s like >>>>>> saying policing = a good community and I’d dare say the >>>>>> folks of Ferguson or South Carolina would disagree with >>>>>> that assertion.;) >>>>>> >>>>>> You bring up a good point I’m just wondering is the >>>>>> tightening of the rules going to necessarily translate in >>>>>> to better content. It might but it’s hard to get enough >>>>>> people to switch and keep the same value when there’s >>>>>> already a critical mass of people here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck though, as one of my favorite talk radio hosts >>>>>> used to say before he passed away “that’s why they make >>>>>> chocolate and vanilla” something for the different >>>>>> viewpoints. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:43 AM, Littlefield, Tyler >>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> Hello: A lot of people have had numerous problems on this >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> My last response on this list was cursed at and nothing >>>>>> is being done to stop it. As a result of the >>>>>> spam/cursing/general throwing of fits, I created a new >>>>>> list where rules can be enforced and we can have a good >>>>>> community. On 8/26/2015 2:46 AM, 'Gabriele Battaglia' via >>>>>> MacVisionaries wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Reply to the Littlefield, Tyler's message, wrote >>>>>>>>> on 26/08/2015 at 05:29: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, sorry but, maybe I lost something. Why a new >>>>>>>>> list? What is going to happen to this one? Thanks. >>>>>>>>> Gabriel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed >>>>>>> to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To >>>>>>> unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this >>>>>>> group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> > >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>> the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from >>>> this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email >>>> to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. To post >>>> to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more >>>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this >>> group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >>> [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. To post >>> to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more >>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this >> group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. To post to >> this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, >> visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this > group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. To post to > this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, > visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. - -- Take care, Ty twitter: @sorressean web:http://tysdomain.com pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV3xuDAAoJEAdP60+BYxej29UH/2nbZ4U3z49ruLx9NYqg0Jg5 YUlu9b6g3LAQ1p4a7Gckv0ofR7ww0chrmbsxzsR79guMsr+nvWzltrJA6NWR1r9W n6DzJahMqHJwQ65PS6P/7720t9Zh3i9GjqUQ4cMogNTBFraqzCpLDjb5KmkniD8S Qx0If9HvCPehRA8tq4YEnViMh+GsKT4WgVS+vAfcE9S8xeSJDLOmqyG56q7uFHUO Q/OSw/XNiLuJKpuPuWxTSkJDQz+QlEVT5DS9mXQye0S/EKubzCTexH2mtm/Tz4rG 6fL/JzsnM509k7Suv51wLGqkQgZesVVCEwk/mBx10z0hP/k6rC7oPDXCSL259G4= =Zkbm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
