You know you make a really interesting point. Thinking back on it, I went from a PPC-6850 to an iPod. I remember breaking that guy out of the box and just sort of nudeling around with it for a few minutes and I’d say with in an hour I was comfortable with the very basics. I remember taking a long time to work up to the app store and using apps because I was surprised they would be accessible having no such luck on the power PC. The thing I’ve noticed with sited and blind alike is with an Apple device you can pick it up even with out initial training and there’s parts of it that just make sense and click. My father’s a great example of this. I handed him an iPad and had to admonish him twice on the ride home to stop playing with his iPad and driving at the same time.:) With in a week he new more hand gestures than I did and he never looked back. Impressive to see but that’s been a big push from Apple back to the days of the Lisa. Anyone remember Steve Job’s daughter’s experience with paint on the Mac? I think intuitive use has been a thrust of apple since after the switch from the Apple 2 to the graphical devices.
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 7:53 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote: > > Wow, there's a blast from the past! :) You're dead on, Scott. It's funny to > think how revolutionary those MobileSpeak phones seemed at the time, and I > would agree, it totally changed my professional and personal life. Yet now > it kind of seems like typing on an old manual typewriter. > > I think there's a difference between something feeling intuitive once you > understand it, and being intuitive to figure out. One thing I would say > about Apple products, is that I often have the experience that once I know > the solution to a problem it makes perfect sense, but finding the solution > isn't always easy. Ideally, both parts of the equation should be intuitive, > but I suppose that starts to get kind of subjective. Note that I haven't > upgraded, so haven't tried the Mail app yet. > Cheers, > Donna > > >> On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net >> <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote: >> >> You know what’s interesting, I did find the touch screen very intuitive but >> let me qualify that. I was using touch screens before the apple products. >> I was one of several on this list who go back to the Mobile speak days on >> Pocket PC devices. While it seems hokey today at that time that was highly >> life changing stuff. Having an accessible phone totally changed my >> professional life for example being able to text with my coworkers and >> receive alerts from automated devices and do more than here a random >> meaningless alert with no idea what was being sent to me. >> In comparison to mobile speak the whole apple interface seemed >> revolutionary and oddly easy to use because you actually worked with the >> screen instead of tapped in the different corners in combination like a >> game. You also got visual information like screen placement and layout that >> was never available before. So my experience probably differs from yours >> only because I came from a really proprietary environment from code factory >> to a more mainstream approach. Or at least different, maybe mainstream >> isn’t the best way to express it. >> >> >>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> What is streamline and what is intuitive? The first time you used a touch >>> device, I daresay, you did not find it intuitive. I know I didn't. Now you >>> and I are used to using the Mail app, for instance, in a certain way. What >>> if it could be pointed out to you, as David did in his post, how to >>> efficiently use the Mail app in a different way? Why is that less intuitive >>> than what you are used to? It is change. It is not necessarily less >>> intuitive. We're iPhone Apple is in not coming out with the documentation >>> to let us know about this stuff when they release the final OS. Fiddling >>> around is for beta testers. When you release a final product which is >>> supposed to be accessible, you need to dot the eyes and cross the tease, >>> and let us know how it is different in terms of our particular >>> accessibility needs. That goes with the territory of universal design. I >>> know reading is out of fashion out with specially with the younger >>> generation. But a little bit of documentation goes a long way. >>> A picture is not necessarily worth a few words, especially when you're >>> dealing with someone who can't see the freaking picture. >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe <che...@dogsc4me.com >>> <mailto:che...@dogsc4me.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined >>>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, >>>> namely OS. >>>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS. The iOS >>>> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted. >>>> Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users. >>>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to >>>> be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative. This mail >>>> issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make >>>> simpler, to add features. >>>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion. No release >>>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or >>>> easily usable. >>>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that >>>> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs. >>>> It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the >>>> more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round. >>>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements. >>>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, >>>> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good. >>>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk >>>> losing something that could and did change the world for us. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks >>>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail. >>>>> >>>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the >>>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread >>>>> to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, >>>>> single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. >>>>> Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. >>>>> Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all >>>>> messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between >>>>> threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, >>>>> and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger >>>>> horrizontal flick in the message list screen. >>>>> >>>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must >>>>> be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical >>>>> flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and >>>>> all the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now >>>>> that I have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me >>>>> a few hours of frustration to become used to this new system. >>>>> >>>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for >>>>> iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen >>>>> and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent. >>>>> >>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no >>>>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I >>>>>> have to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of >>>>>> messages in a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the >>>>>> first message in the thread and then have to navigate between messages >>>>>> using the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 >>>>>> finger flicking from message to message gone in ios10? >>>>>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there >>>>>> some settings that need tweaking? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>>>> Quinn - 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