And a very good morning to you too, Janina, from the UK. You must be up early.
Thank you for your encouragement. I know, yes, I’m impatient and thinking that I’ve lived for more than 6 decades, I am still the same. Ha! Some things don’t change. I won’t give up in a hurry. It took me 7 years of hard work to learn modern Greek properly to the level at which I can follow radio & tv without a problem and read literature, newspapers, websites in Greek and feel comfortable. So I will give Linux and cli a good shot. I’ve just done a quick research on what it means uncomment something ; you used this term in the most recent response to me. I think I’ve found the answer. It’s to do with config files where you either insert a number sign at start of line so that it is ignored, or remove the number sign so that it becomes visible to the computer. Is that right? What editor would you use to edit such files both in Terminal and in cli in Linux? Are such editors already there, or are they to be installed? Anyway, by the sound of it you had a hell of a busy day yesterday. Hope you had rested and that your groceries had arrived. Well, I’m just researching how to; enable Speakup in the console on Linux and how to make it play with Orca. Somebody elsewhere mentioned it was possible and spoke of having to do something with pulseaudio. Have a good day. Andrew > On 31 Mar 2020, at 10:30, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Hey, Andrew. Good morning of another day to you from the U.S. East > Coast! > > Is this thread Mac related? Yeah, we've mentioned Linux a lot, but the > truth is that almost all of what we've talked about applies to the Mac > Terminal. And, I think I've tried to point out where things in the > Terminal are the same, and where they're different. I know this list > doesn't to have a lot of discussion about the terminal, but I promise > you it's the power environment that Apple engineers use heavily. > > A quick example: > > The Mac utility for managing disks has both a graphical interface and a > cli interface. We've had lots of discussion here about Disk Utility, but > very little about diskutil. Guess which one can do more. And, should you > need one of those functions the graphical tool doesn't provide, your > only option is the cli. > > Just to be complete, Linux doesn't have a diskutil, though it certainly > has tools for managing disks at that level. Apple's disk management is > quite sophisticated. > > So, don't give up! You've just started, and you're learning fast. This > should become fairly soon as you learn more. > > Lastly, get used to the idea that you'll never know it all. Not even > after 30 years of heavy use of the cli will you know it all. That needs > to be OK, and it should help provide perspective. > > Best, > > Janina > > As she reaches for her coffee amaretto ... > > 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes: >> Haha! Good advice, Simon, which I have practised for some time now. Now >> that we are in lockdown, one of the most upsetting thing in the supermarket >> were empty wine shelves, no beer for that matter either. A consignment from >> Amazon arrived yesterday to help me with my Linux studies. Hee hee! Gosh, >> this thread’s getting very useful and entertaining to boot. I feel a bit >> bad having started it because it’s obviously only. marginally mac OS >> related. The more I learn about Linux and cli, the more fascinating it >> becomes. But I also become more and more anxious about my ability to get to >> any acceptable level, not that I want to run before I can walk. It’s the >> sheer body of knowledge, the concepts and terms that I feel I haven’t got a >> solid grasp of, and there’s so much more. So when I was doing the TDSR >> installation and saw some of the commands, it made my blood curdle. I don’t >> want to give up without a good fight though. >> >> Take care >> >> Andrew >>> On 31 Mar 2020, at 08:14, Simon A Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hey Andrew, >>> >>> What you’ve done sounds great congrats, >>> >>> And don’t become an alcoholic, >>> Become a drunkid >>> >>> Alcoholics have to go to meetings >>> >>> Drunkids just keep drinking. >>> >>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> >>> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions >>> >>> Hello Janina, >>> >>> I think I’ve done it. I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice. I’m >>> exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad. by the time I become >>> a mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too. <smile> >>> >>> I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath: >>> "You will encounter build failures with some formulae. >>> Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub, >>> Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you >>> experience while you are running this old version.” >>> But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the >>> command a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, >>> so maybe Homebrew has been updated. It would appear from what I’ve been >>> reading on installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says >>> as best as possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs. The rest of >>> the installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr >>> I heard the familiar Daniel voice. How fabulous! >>> >>> >>> On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so >>> I will try to do it too. Should I be doing it as root? By the way, >>> talking of root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve >>> given myself sudo privileges or not? If not, can I still do it, or do I >>> have to repeat the installation? The instructions for linux tell me to >>> install speech dispatcher and Python3. Would I use the command. Install for >>> them both and is speech dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two >>> words or one or with a hyphen? >>> >>> >>> Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help. I’m a bit anxious having >>> imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too >>> much. >>> >>> >>> Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in >>> MacOS. Oh, one more thing. I tried to change the shell in Terminal from >>> Bash to Zsh with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take. Is it because I’m still >>> running this Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine. >>> >>> Andrew >>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Again, Andrew: >>> >>> Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an >>> out of date repository. >>> >>> I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the >>> following pointer: >>> >>> https://docs.brew.sh <https://docs.brew.sh/> <https://docs.brew.sh/ >>> <https://docs.brew.sh/>> >>> >>> >>> If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to >>> date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else, >>> seems homebrew brews on github, too! >>> >>> My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial >>> install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes! >>> >>> Or, it will just do it. >>> >>> Let me know how it goes. >>> >>> Janina >>> >>> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes: >>> >>> Hi, Andrew: >>> >>> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page >>> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got. >>> >>> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web >>> pointer. >>> >>> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just >>> don't have a usable homebrew. More soon. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Janina >>> >>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes: >>> >>> Dear Janina, >>> >>> Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew. Everything seems to have >>> gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install >>> Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and >>> unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead. I ddid go ahead with it. In >>> the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor >>> to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully. I >>> did run the command but obtained no feedback. One point I should have >>> clarified is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this >>> particular machine. I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the >>> Greek voice which I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not >>> been fixed by Apple since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years. >>> So I(i have to keep this computer behind. I might try to install Homebrew >>> on Catalina later. >>> >>> Janina, you say something about Nano editor. Should I already have it on >>> my mac, or do I need to download it? I’ve paused going ahead with the rest >>> of the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor. Don’t want to >>> break anything. <smile> >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Andrew: >>> >>> I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on >>> your Mac. It's just useful to have it. >>> >>> What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on >>> your Mac terminal. >>> >>> Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop >>> screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ... >>> >>> I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did >>> several things: >>> >>> * Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing. >>> >>> * Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my >>> * ssh session. That's a bad thing. >>> >>> * The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad >>> * thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting >>> * speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop >>> * speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform >>> out >>> * there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when >>> * you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't >>> * yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo. >>> >>> * Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's >>> also >>> * a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be >>> * sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the >>> * foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again >>> imo, >>> * is to shut up immediately. >>> >>> So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the >>> silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want >>> to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is >>> ready for serious use just yet. >>> >>> So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions >>> on installing and using homebrew: >>> >>> https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx >>> >>> <https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx><https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx >>> >>> <https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx>> >>> >>> NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an >>> application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK, >>> though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but >>> you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another >>> conversation. >>> >>> I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that >>> entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often >>> each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of >>> why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with >>> all my profile customizations? >>> >>> Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of >>> everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm >>> stumbling. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Janina >>> >>> >>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes: >>> >>> Janina, >>> >>> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for >>> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is >>> that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around >>> the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my >>> mac. Would you agree? <smile> >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of >>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of >>> python3, and that is taking quite some time. >>> >>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal, >>> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Janina >>> >>> Greg Wocher writes: >>> >>> Hello, >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at: >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr >>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr><https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr >>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>><https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr >>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr><https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr >>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>>> >>> >>> Greg Wocher >>> >>> >>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the >>> window content with Voiceover? Say , ls -l command produces a list of files >>> in the directory I am in. How can I examine each file and maybe even copy >>> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l >>> flag, which would produce long information about each item. >>> >>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques >>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one >>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal >>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there >>> should be more than one. This doesn’t seem to work. When I press the tab, I >>> hear the ominous bong bong. So this technique doesn’t work. Any thoughts on >>> this? >>> >>> andrew >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>> at:mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web >>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com >>> >>> <visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com>>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>> at:mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web >>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com >>> >>> <visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com>>. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:http://a11y.org >>> <http://a11y.org/><http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> <architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa><http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>> at:mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web >>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330053201.GM2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330053201.GM2206%40rednote.net><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330053201.GM2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330053201.GM2206%40rednote.net>>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>> at:mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web >>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AC7FC1FD-9557-4A78-B1D3-989CCDA83A69%40me.com >>> >>> <visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AC7FC1FD-9557-4A78-B1D3-989CCDA83A69%40me.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AC7FC1FD-9557-4A78-B1D3-989CCDA83A69%40me.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AC7FC1FD-9557-4A78-B1D3-989CCDA83A69%40me.com>>. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>> <http://a11y.org/> <http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures >>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> >>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330095928.GP2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330095928.GP2206%40rednote.net><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330095928.GP2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330095928.GP2206%40rednote.net>>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C2AC6F53-6352-4CD6-8406-128697ABE1C2%40me.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C2AC6F53-6352-4CD6-8406-128697ABE1C2%40me.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C2AC6F53-6352-4CD6-8406-128697ABE1C2%40me.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C2AC6F53-6352-4CD6-8406-128697ABE1C2%40me.com>>. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>> <http://a11y.org/> <http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330143851.GT2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330143851.GT2206%40rednote.net><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330143851.GT2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330143851.GT2206%40rednote.net>>. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>> <http://a11y.org/> <http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330144453.GU2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330144453.GU2206%40rednote.net><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330144453.GU2206%40rednote.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200330144453.GU2206%40rednote.net>>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/990B82F4-A39C-4BF7-B92C-91A2E3D0934B%40me.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/990B82F4-A39C-4BF7-B92C-91A2E3D0934B%40me.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/990B82F4-A39C-4BF7-B92C-91A2E3D0934B%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/990B82F4-A39C-4BF7-B92C-91A2E3D0934B%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu><mailto:mk...@ucla.edu >>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/SYCPR01MB404808F61594EFC7FA5746AC8AC80%40SYCPR01MB4048.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/SYCPR01MB404808F61594EFC7FA5746AC8AC80%40SYCPR01MB4048.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/SYCPR01MB404808F61594EFC7FA5746AC8AC80%40SYCPR01MB4048.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/SYCPR01MB404808F61594EFC7FA5746AC8AC80%40SYCPR01MB4048.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6FBD899B-4C51-47EE-97FE-BAA762990F7A%40me.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6FBD899B-4C51-47EE-97FE-BAA762990F7A%40me.com>. > > -- > > Janina Sajka > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > <http://a11y.org/> > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can > reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200331093048.GZ2206%40rednote.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200331093048.GZ2206%40rednote.net>. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BA742C85-7BAA-4166-BAE8-8E73C7993362%40me.com.
