Hi Ricardo and Scott Sorry this is just an impression I have. I will explain a little further what I mean, and let me also say that I acknowledge that as a new mac user I probably don't really know what I am talking about.
It is things like bringing up a context menu. There is obviously the 4 finger VO way to do this. Is there any keyboard only way of doing this other then the VO one? Under windows there is a specific key for this as well as at least one other 2 finger keyboard shortcut. I get the impression that a lot of the UI in OSX is designed to be interacted with by using a mouse or now the track pad primarily. This is obviously the same with windows but in windows I think that you would be more likely to be able to find a keystroke which would accomplish the task you wanted. VO seems to have to overcome the lack of a native keyboard shortcut and it often seems that there are a lot of steps that are needed to get the job done. Not to mention the number of keys that make up some of the shortcuts. There has been a strong history of supporting keyboard shortcuts under windows. I read recently somewhere, possibly in the Steve Jobs biography, that at one time he wanted to get rid of arrow keys on his keyboards altogether. I think Pages is probably a lot more efficient to use if you are able to see and can use the mouse. Under word you can achieve heaps with simple keyboard shortcuts. Anyway as I said these are just the impressions of a new mac user. Garth On 25/11/2011, at 9:00 PM, Scott Howell wrote: > I concur Recardo and I also would like some examples as well. I have been > using the Mac since 2005 and I have never felt as though keyboard commands > are an afterthought. > > On Nov 24, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I completely disagree that Mac OSX keystrokes feel like add ons or after >> thoughts in comparison to Windows. I would appreciate if you can give some >> examples of this. >> Ricardo Walker >> rwalker...@gmail.com >> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296 >> www.mobileaccess.org >> >> On Nov 24, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Garth Humphreys wrote: >> >>> Hi Missy >>> >>> I think one the reasons your not getting that comfortable with the word >>> processing options on the Mac is that they actually aren't that great >>> compared to MS Word. This goes beyond just that we are use to using Word. >>> >>> Keystrokes on the Mac seem to be much more of an add on or after thought >>> then they are in windows. I don't mean this just from the perspective of a >>> blind user, but in general without any reference to screen readers. >>> >>> I don't want to sound like I am bashing the Mac, I actually really like >>> using it. I just want to be realistic about the limitations as well. >>> Especially given that potential new users watch this list in the same way >>> that I did before buying my MBA. >>> >>> Garth >>> >>> >>> On 24/11/2011, at 11:50 PM, Missy Hoppe wrote: >>> >>>> I agree. I'm very comfortable with basic finder commands in particular; >>>> have caught myself trying to use them on the PC >>>> recently. Even the mail commands are fairly intuitive once you memorize >>>> them, which usually isn't a problem for me. I just >>>> can't get genuinely comfortable with any of the word processing options >>>> for the mac, and there are a lot of instances where >>>> things just seem more complicated than they have to be: for example, I >>>> don't always know when interracting is mandatory, and >>>> I've heard some instructions on this list that just seem way too complex >>>> considering the task trying to be accomplished. I >>>> wish I could think of an example, but I do remember 1 thing I read >>>> recently where there were 4-5 steps, including >>>> interracting several times, and I just thought to myself that whatever the >>>> task was isn't nearly so complicated to do under >>>> windows. Still, I am to the point where I try to boot up the mac at least >>>> a few times a week, but unless I can find a better >>>> word processor, some audio games and/or a mud client that actually works, >>>> I don't ever see myself abandoning the PC. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth Humphreys >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:41 AM >>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: Mac feel natural >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I would agree with the general sentiment that you need to just use your >>>> mac for a while. I have only had my Mac for a couple >>>> of months but I have used it everyday. >>>> >>>> I feel relatively comfortable on the Mac. I wouldn't agree that you need >>>> to stop using Windows completely. I have been using >>>> Windows XP at work everyday as well and also I've been using Windows 7 and >>>> Vista at home as well. >>>> >>>> I think the important thing is to use the Mac regularly. It is just >>>> practice and to a degree muscle memory. There are >>>> obviously lots of factors but one major component of feeling comfortable >>>> is simply knowing what keystroke to press without >>>> having to think about it. The simple fact is that the required keystroke >>>> to achieve something on a Mac is likely to be more >>>> complicated then it would be on a Windows machine. I don't mean that it is >>>> necessarily less intuitive I just mean that it is >>>> likely to involve more keys and so maybe harder to remember. >>>> When it comes time for me to send this message for example I won't have to >>>> think through what the key stroke is. I have used >>>> the mac mail app enough that it is second nature to hit Cmd+Shift+D. >>>> >>>> In short, like others have said practise. If you have to put your Windows >>>> machine out of reach for while to force yourself >>>> then sure, why not. >>>> >>>> For me personally the thing I have loved most about using my mac is the >>>> physical hardware it's self. The MBA is truly a >>>> lovely machine. I like using Lion and VO but for somethings it is just no >>>> replacement for an up-to-date windows machine. Word >>>> with JAWS or even NVDA is far better then Pages and VO in my opinion. And >>>> I would be really happy if I never had to hear busy >>>> busy busy busy again. >>>> >>>> NVDA is becoming or should I say has become a first class screen reader >>>> and it is free. >>>> >>>> I do love my Mac but Windows is also an excellent OS. >>>> >>>> Garth >>>> >>>> twitter.com/blindtechmusing >>>> >>>> , >>>> On 24/11/2011, at 7:50 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I have been using the Mac since 2008 and am never ever ever ever going to >>>>> go back to windblows again. It took me a weekend >>>> to set it up and once done, i left windblows behind and have never looked >>>> back since. Ok, i've got a vm with XP and one with >>>> 7 in it, just to see what i'm not missing. The only things i use windblows >>>> for nowadays is playing audio games. Let's hope >>>> there'll be mac versions of them too so i finally can ditch windblows >>>> alltogether. >>>>> I can only agree with what others have said here, use the mac as much as >>>>> possible, especially when you learn it. That will >>>> make the experience easier. >>>>> /Krister >>>>> >>>>> 24 nov 2011 kl. 03:16 skrev Mary: >>>>> >>>>>> Traci, >>>>>> >>>>>> the way I did it was to force myself to do everything I needed to do on >>>>>> the Mac and stay away from Windows. No matter how >>>> tempting it was, I didn't allow myself to use Windows at all While I was >>>> learning to use the Mac. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mary >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 23, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Paul Mimms wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Most of us are more comfortable with what we have become familiar with >>>>>>> using, therefore what is easier. You may find you >>>> just need to stop making the decision whether to use the MacBook or the PC >>>> and remove the PC from consideration. Make the >>>> MacBook the only computer you use and make it work for you just as you did >>>> with the PC at one time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 10:19 AM, Traci wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is your advice on making the Mac experience feel natural? I'm >>>>>>>> loving my Macbook Air, but I'm noticing I don't >>>> naturally go to it. I'm still using my ancient windows laptop most of the >>>> time. It can be 3 or 4 days, and I think I really >>>> should go on my Mac. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> :) I guess I want to get to the point, where it is odd to pick up the >>>>>>>> windows laptop. Any good suggestions? How long >>>> did it take you before the Mac felt second nature? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Traci >>>>>>>> Sent by Macbook Air Mail >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Yes, the glass is half full, but I'm not finished filling it! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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