Wow! Thanks for the Holmesian sleuthing Brandon! I will take this info and Ken's good advice to let the gmail user know about their bi-directional forwarding's potential for problems.
Thanks, -Terry > On Nov 15, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Brandon Long <[email protected]> wrote: > > So, I looked up the actual message. It is being forwarded to a hotmail.com > account normally, and then forwarded back. > > It looks like Hotmail/Outlook is rewriting the envelope sender back to your > account. > > Ie, it's [email protected] -> [email protected] > [email protected] -> [email protected] > [email protected] -> [email protected] -> this fails because of DMARC policy failure. > > and then you get the bounce. > > Our rewriting there is pretty easy to understand, pretty normal application > of a VERP, but it seems likely they are undoing the rewrite on purpose. If I > had to guess, they are doing the rewriting to make other things work better, > and it's effect on the forwarding case isn't the primary reason. > > As for why a user would do this, if they're using both accounts regularly, > the easiest is to set up forwarding in both directions and hope that message > deduplication takes care of stopping any loops. > > Brandon > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Michael Wise via mailop <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I can understand the desire to do it, but ... in a forum such as this, yer > gonna have to get around to giving us the real data sooner or later, so I'd > suggest providing it at the outset, just because. > > Aloha, > Michael. > -- > Michael J Wise > Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis > "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." > Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Barnum [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 12:59 PM > To: Michael Wise <[email protected]> > Cc: David Sgro, Dataspindle <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [mailop] Confused by bounce > > Thanks Michael. Just my habit of obfuscating domains with example.com. > Probably counter-productive here. > > -Terry > > > On Nov 15, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Michael Wise <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dunno whether this is serious or not, what with the reference to > > example.com and all, but if it is ... > > I draw your attention to the SPF record’s single clause. > > If this was a test, it was poorly chosen. > > > > $ host -t txt example.com > > example.com descriptive text "v=spf1 -all" > > > > Aloha, > > Michael. > > -- > > Michael J Wise > > Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis > > "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." > > Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mailop [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Sgro, > > Dataspindle > > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:26 AM > > To: Terry Barnum <[email protected]>; [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [mailop] Confused by bounce > > > > Possibly a manual blacklist by that domain? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mailop [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Terry Barnum > > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 2:02 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [mailop] Confused by bounce > > > > If we send email to a specific gmail user we receive a bounce from Hotmail > > saying it can't deliver due to our DMARC policy. Postfix logs show the > > email being delivered and accepted by gmail. Email to other gmail users > > goes through fine. > > > > Postfix delivery- > > Nov 14 18:12:00 mail.example.com postfix/smtp[7000]: 3tHrVm0qyVzKk7bl: > > to=<[email protected]>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.203.26]:25, > > delay=0.76, delays=0.02/0.01/0.48/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 > > OK 1479175920 p62si24555443pfi.27 - gsmtp) > > > > Bounce- > > Reporting-MTA: dns;BLU004-OMC4S37.hotmail.com > > Received-From-MTA: dns;NAM04-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com > > Arrival-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 18:12:05 -0800 > > > > Final-Recipient: rfc822;[email protected] > > Action: failed > > Status: 5.5.0 > > Diagnostic-Code: smtp;550-5.7.1 Unauthenticated email from example.com is > > not accepted due to domain's > > 550-5.7.1 DMARC policy. Please contact the administrator of example.com > > domain if > > 550-5.7.1 this was a legitimate mail. Please visit > > 550-5.7.1 > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fmail%2Fanswer%2F2451690&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7Ce518fcb88cc74cb11d2b08d40d8e5c00%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636148352462936043&sdata=Tp0ESIrlQCEezqrPx6Dea3leznKOTfJZTh07%2B0iGTyw%3D&reserved=0 > > to learn about the > > 550 5.7.1 DMARC initiative. xz8si20469041pab.182 - gsmtp > > > > I'm confused as to how this can happen. Could the gmail user be forwarding > > received email to a hotmail account and then back to gmail, breaking DMARC? > > > > Thanks, > > -Terry > > > > Terry Barnum > > digital OutPost > > Carlsbad, CA > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dop.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7Ce518fcb88cc74cb11d2b08d40d8e5c00%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636148352462946051&sdata=HvEiLW3Jx%2BtN3hX0fdktiltl2EISl8hYt1xzuJsBuNI%3D&reserved=0 > > 800/464-6434 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mailop mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7Ce518fcb88cc74cb11d2b08d40d8e5c00%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636148352462946051&sdata=qaFPrY5RMNhkSdIMg1eiknu%2BH1HLB0o7qLyr%2FTyJmH8%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > > mailop mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7Ce518fcb88cc74cb11d2b08d40d8e5c00%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636148352462946051&sdata=qaFPrY5RMNhkSdIMg1eiknu%2BH1HLB0o7qLyr%2FTyJmH8%3D&reserved=0 > > Terry Barnum > digital OutPost > Carlsbad, CA > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dop.com&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7C35e9509ba5a847062f8608d40d9a4412%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636148403596535028&sdata=zcIQtMW%2FDE%2BVRbXfKgbZLcLTOwOE0KRuo%2FnMsEeQHLo%3D&reserved=0 > 800/464-6434 > > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > [email protected] > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > Terry Barnum digital OutPost Carlsbad, CA http://www.dop.com 800/464-6434 _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
