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I would like to correct a mistake I made in my previous e-mail: where I wrote "the date of the map" I should have written "the apparent date implied by the text of the map". It was not my intention to cast any doubt on the date estimates made by Daan and Joel based on the cartographic data shown on the map and I apologize if my post was understood like that. I just wanted to highlight that the text is in contradiction with these estimates. I have copied the text on the bottom left corner and provided a rough translation into English. If a native English speaker wills to improve this translation, please do not hesitate. Original text: "El eclise de Sol no Cubrio toda LA NUEVA ESPAÑA solo el Oriente hasta NUEVA GALICIA Y NVA VIZCAYA porque Don Manuel de Segura oidor de la Real Audiencia de Guadalajara nos lo dijo y el Capitan don Nemesio de Siguenza estaba en la villa de Durango y no se vio nada asi se hace costar." Translation: "The Solar eclipse did not cover the whole of NEW SPAIN only the East until NEW GALICIA AND NEW BISCAY because Don Manuel de Segura oidor of the Real Audiencia of Guadalajara told us so and Captain don Nemesio de Sigüenza was in the town of Durango and nothing was seen there[.] So is it recorded." Therefore this text is (or purports to be) a first-person account of a fact-finding mission related to the eclipse which was carried out at an unspecified date but for sure when first-hand witnesses were still alive. Interesting hypotheses have already been put forward on the list about the nature of this chronologically awkward map. The one that came to my mind was that a map with this text may well have been drawn in the 1690's whereas the document preserved at Berkeley could be a copy made decades or centuries later by somebody who copied the accompanying text verbatim but preferred to replace the map itself with a more up-to-date cartographic image of Mexico. Best regards, Luis 2011/3/26 Daniel Strebe <[email protected]> > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the > whole list) > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > > > > On Mar 26, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Sr. Luis Robles Macías wrote: > > There are two other persons cited on the map, in the text at the bottom > left corner: Manuel de Segura, "oidor" of the Audiencia of Guadalajara; and > Captain Nernasio (?) de Siguenza. If someone could provide biographic > information on these two men then the date of the map could be established > quite firmly. > > > That would only establish that the map portrays real events from the past > but not establish how far in the past. Meanwhile anachronisms from the > future cast much doubt on the 1688 dating. To wit: > • Baja California coastline is 18th century, not late 17th. Spanish maps of > the era show insular Baja. > • Mission San Diego was established in 1769. > • Mission Hermosillo was established in 1787 but the toponym “Hermosillo” > dates even later, from 1828. > • Iguala was settled in 1750 but named Iguala in 1821. > • The laid paper looks a lot more late 18th or 19th century than 17th > century to my eyes. > > Iguala and Hermosillo are both Mexican revolutionary toponyms. This map was > constructed long after the events it purports to portray. > > Regards, > — daan Strebe > > > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the > whole list) > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > > > There is however an indication on the map that it could in fact date from > the last decade of the 17th century: the text at the top says that the map > was made "Por orden de S.M.N. el Sº Virrey de la Nueva España Dº. Gaspar de > la Cerda Silva y Mendoza..." > > Gaspar de la Cerda was viceroy of New Spain between November 1688 and > February 1696. He faced several revolts, most notably in 1692. (see a quite > long biography in > Wikipedia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_de_la_Cerda,_8th_Count_of_Galve> > ) > > The text on the map mentions revolts ("...los indios facieron muchos > desacatos y mal (...) y se amotinan..."), which is consistent with the > traumatic events endured by Gaspar de la Cerda. The text implies that the > eclipse was the ultimate cause of these revolts. > > There are two other persons cited on the map, in the text at the bottom > left corner: Manuel de Segura, "oidor" of the Audiencia of Guadalajara; and > Captain Nernasio (?) de Siguenza. If someone could provide biographic > information on these two men then the date of the map could be established > quite firmly. > > Regards, > Luis A. Robles Macías > > 2011/3/25 Joel Kovarsky <[email protected]> > >> This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to >> the whole list) >> o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o >> + >> On 3/25/2011 6:25 PM, strebe wrote: >> >>> Given that Mission San Diego was not established until 1769, the >>> interpretation of the date on the map as the year of construction or >>> publication is not likely correct. >>> >>> Regards, >>> — daan Strebe >>> >> >> In addition to the above, which clearly indicates a date after 1688, the >> map shows California as peninsular, very likely indicating a date after >> Father Kino's work in the early 18th century (1705 as the date of the >> printed map based on earlier manuscript drawings). An image of that 1705 map >> can be seen here (map no. 3 on that page): < >> http://www2.lib.virginia.edu/exhibits/onthemap/index.php/themes/17th-century/following-a-different-path/ >> >. >> >> Joel Kovarsky >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >> the views of the author. >> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl >> >> Maphist mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist >> > > _______________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > > > _______________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist >
_______________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
