For CCC, I think anything will do. For www, I remember struggling to get updates on there, and I am pretty confident in this general area. This is a separate topic from this thread, but I agree that the www site would benefit from being easier to update and maintain.
Will On Sun., May 23, 2021, 4:37 p.m. Andrija Panic, <andrija.pa...@gmail.com> wrote: > Being in a need to update ACS websites in past, it was absolutely > frustrating to get things done at all - that is my humble experience. > > I do understand WordPress needs some maintenance - so we need to sort it > out, if we want to move to it. > And, for the record, I do support the idea of WordPress, as technical guys > (me included) can/want to barely write a complete documentation or even > keep the ACS docs updated, leave alone the marketing pages - technical guys > like working on a code, not updating documentation or marketing pages - > that is a fact nobody can deny, and since this is community project we cant > "force" people do it, although we desperately need it, otherwise things get > outdated and incomplete/obsolete. > > This is where Ivet and alike should jump in, if they are ready to provide > some support for it over the longer period of time (I'm talking about > WordPress for eithet/or/both CCC and the main www site) - and both CCC, > blog and WWW website are so infrequently updated > > my 2 cents. > > Best, > > On Sun, 23 May 2021, 22:01 Sven Vogel, <svo...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> >> In many points I agree with Will. At the moment we speak about the CCC >> website. Right? >> >> I don’t see any reason why we should to the CloudStack website www to an >> WordPress. I like the usage of git for the www site and I think this is >> more open. I don’t see how a WordPress can work like this. Maybe anybody >> have an idea. Please let us concentrate on CCC and not on the www Website. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Sven Vogel >> Apache CloudStack PMC member >> >> >> >> Am Samstag, den 05/22/2021 um 21:59 schrieb Will Stevens: >> >> Giles, I think you and I were saying the same thing. When I mentioned >> your and Simons teams, I was pointing out that you have a marketing team, >> where Simons team is more focused on ops. I think it is most important that >> that you and the other marketing people who are willing and able to support >> this work use whatever system works best for you. >> >> Will >> >> On Sat., May 22, 2021, 10:32 a.m. Giles Sirett, < >> giles.sir...@shapeblue.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Will – although I don’t mind our company being mentioned (and thank >>> you for the compliments), I don’t see this as an issue as what orgs our >>> contributors work for. >>> >>> >>> >>> This, for me, is an issue of needing to create a basic website, quickly >>> and easily, preferably without any specialist skills. – I really do >>> appreciate the work you’ve put in on maintaining this over the years, but I >>> think we should listen to the people who are trying to organise this event. >>> >>> >>> >>> From my perspective :for the collab site, this is almost an unnecessary >>> conversation: it’s a “temporary” site for an annual conference and doesn’t >>> really need long term maintenance - if somebody wants to setup something >>> for this years/next years conference and are prepared to do the work, lets >>> point the A records at whatever they’ve created and let it roll >>> >>> >>> >>> On a more general point (probably more related to cloudstack.apche.org) >>> : I do disagree with your view on things like wordpress. Theres a reason >>> that start-ups, web agencies, marketing teams, etc all default to CMSs like >>> WordPress: it makes it easy to update content by people WITHOUT specialist >>> tech skills – the same people that often have ideas on >>> marketing/presentation/etc. AFAIK, WordPress is virtually de-facto in >>> those circles >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, we’re a tech community, but we’re mainly java programmers and infra >>> people. AFAIK there isn’t a defacto HTML generator in our circles. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Over the years we’ve had a number of more marketing focussed people in >>> the community: Karen, Ivet, myself, Sunando, Julia and I don’t think any of >>> us have been able to update cloudstack.apache.org without constantly >>> asking for help. I’d guess most don’t even know where to start with git >>> >>> We should be making our web presence easy for such people to add value >>> IMO – but we don’t. This, to me, is like those folks trying to tell our >>> developer community what IDE they have to use (and forcing them to use a >>> txt editor 😊 ) >>> >>> >>> >>> I did start a thread on this about 4 years ago (as I was getting >>> frustrated as to how difficult it was to maintain cloudstack.apache.org). >>> That thread resulted in lots of people listing their favourite HTML >>> generator tools/techniques and nobody able to agree. We even had a web >>> agency prepared to do us a re-design pro bono. >>> >>> >>> >>> It ran out of steam and the pro-bono agency ran a mile after a few days >>> on this mailing list. At the same time, there’s folks like Ivet keen to >>> contribute but finding it really difficult >>> >>> >>> >>> Your example comparing two different teams just doesn’t add up to me: >>> how many of Simons team have managed to help maintain our website over the >>> years? None AFAIK (sorry, Simon et al, not in any way meant as a criticism) >>> >>> >>> >>> The net result is that the site languishes: often out of date & is >>> updated infrequently. It is also desperate for a design overhaul IMO >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Giles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com> >>> *Sent:* 22 May 2021 12:57 >>> *To:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org >>> *Subject:* Re: CloudStack Collaboration Conference >>> >>> >>> >>> As you wish. I personally hate WordPress, as it becomes a bear to >>> maintain over time. You also have to find somewhere to host it and someone >>> to maintain it. I find that static sites built with something like Hugo are >>> actually easier to maintain, but you are right that some understanding of >>> html is usually required. Static sites also cater to distributed >>> contribution more easily. If you use a service like Netlify, for example, >>> all contribution can be handled through GitHub PRs and the changes can be >>> live previewed within the pull request. Once merged, the site is >>> automatically updated. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am willing to support whatever direction is taken, but my personal >>> involvement supporting a WordPress implementation will be much more limited >>> as I don't have the time to dedicate to that sort of a rebuild. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have a ton of experience with WordPress, Drupal and the like, so I >>> feel obligated to provide my honest opinion. You are right that minor >>> content changes are easier for non-techies, but as soon as you want to make >>> any structural changes or improvements, it becomes highly technical and >>> extremely difficult. The only way to make a WordPress implementation >>> successful, in my experience, is to have consistent technical maintenance >>> by someone with moderate to high technical ability. You also have to >>> actively maintain contributors within the system. >>> >>> >>> >>> Given that CloudStack is an open source Apache project, the majority of >>> the community members are technical users of the platform, so there is a >>> skewed technical bias within the community participation. I think >>> ShapeBlue is the obvious exception, because they run a business around >>> CoudStack, rather than CloudStack just being a piece of a bigger business. >>> ShapeBlue may have staff with skills capable of maintaining something like >>> this, and the contextual interest in investing their paid resources time, >>> but I don't think the majority of the community has the luxury of >>> dedicating this type of profile to focus on CloudStack. Giles, I hope you >>> don't mind me mentioning ShapeBlue in this way. You and your team have >>> remained a constant in the community and your CloudStack focused team has a >>> much more diverse set of skills than most strong contributors in the >>> community. For example, if I compare to Simon's team at ENA, they have been >>> strong contributors for a long time but their team is much more technical >>> and operations focused, which I think is more common in the CloudStack >>> community based on my experience. >>> >>> >>> >>> The reason I raise this is because contribution will naturally wax and >>> wane within the community based on the different organization's ability to >>> fund contribution. Given the fact that WordPress requires dedicated >>> maintenance over time, my concern is that the community will have a much >>> harder time maintaining it with a rotating group of contributors. >>> >>> >>> >>> As an individual contributor, my contribution has waxed and waned over >>> the years and I am not in a good position to represent the needs and >>> capabilities of the current community. I don't know if what I laid out >>> here resonates with the group, so please take it with a grain of salt if >>> you see things differently. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> On Sat., May 22, 2021, 5:18 a.m. Sunando Bhattacharya, < >>> suna...@indiqus.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Will, >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it's best to set up the site afresh using WordPress as it would >>> be far easier to administer for a non-tech person. Moreover, WordPress also >>> has readymade plugins for the virtual event and Webinar platforms, which >>> will make the event setup much easier. >>> >>> >>> >>> Want do you think Ivet? >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Sunando >>> >>> www.indiqus.com >>> >>> +91 97111 52299 >>> >>> >>> * Book my time for a call here >>> <https://t.sidekickopen45.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kv8bWL06W1M6vxk59hl3kW7_k2842Qy2TxW7XLCJP7blRHjN83GqGkDyk8yf8bQQB202?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3F4Fph41QWmBW1JxwY51LDLyRf3zdYTm04&si=5666632314912768&pi=b39b9ed8-71b1-4341-dec1-f2b7cc7261c2> >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 12:03 AM Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hey Ivet, >>> >>> It is built using Hugo (https://gohugo.io/), which produces a static >>> website. >>> >>> >>> >>> The different site repositories are here: >>> https://github.com/cloudops/?q=cloudstackcollab >>> >>> >>> >>> The `cloudstackcollab.org` repo is a simple landing page site which >>> basically references all of the upcoming CCC events (the subdomain sites). >>> Then each event gets their own site. The `us.cloudstackcollab.org` >>> repo has seen the most activity over the years and is likely a good >>> starting point. >>> >>> >>> >>> Currently, I am personally hosting the sites, but we could change that. >>> I could potentially host it via a `gh-pages` branch in the same repo if >>> that is preferred. We could also move these sites to the apache org if >>> that is desired, but I suspect there will be some red tape in making that >>> happen. I am happy to deploy the updates to the current hosting if that is >>> desirable for the short term anyway. >>> >>> >>> >>> The easiest way to get started would be to clone one or two of the repos >>> and get them working locally on your system by setting up Hugo. From >>> there, we can potentially handle the content / site changes through PRs >>> which I can then merge and deploy. That is probably the shortest path, but >>> I happy to accomodate if we would like to approach this differently. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let me know if/when you have questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:13 AM Ivet Petrova < >>> ivet.petr...@shapeblue.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Will, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am volunteering to make updates there if you agree. >>> >>> Looks like not WorPress. Is it plain HTML? >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 21 May 2021, at 17:07, Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, I have not been as active in the community as I once was. I am >>> happy to support the CloudStack Collab website as I have in the past, but I >>> am also willing to get someone else setup to take over if someone is >>> interested. >>> >>> >>> >>> I will try to stay on top of the CCC communications so I am not a >>> bottleneck for progress. [image: :)] >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 7:43 AM Giles Sirett <giles.sir...@shapeblue.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Ivet – I think that is a GREAT idea. I’d love to see it happen >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously, you have experience in organising virtual events, so I wont >>> try to offer any advice on that, but here’s a couple of things you would >>> need to think about >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Permission to use the trademark. >>> Officially there’s nothing to stop you (or anybody) organising an >>> event at any time. The only official thing you need to do is ask the PMC >>> for permission to use the ACS trademark. I’ll happily ask on your behalf >>> if you like – let me know >>> 2. CFP >>> The way we have done this previously is ask for a small panel of >>> volunteers to act as a “talk selection committee” >>> Obviously , we then need some way of people actually submitting >>> proposals. Previously, we’ve used the Apachecon CFP tool – obviously >>> that >>> wont be available for an event such as this >>> 3. We have a website for Cloudstack Collab conferences : >>> http://cloudstackcollab.org/ >>> That’s managed by Will Stevens/ the cloud-ops guys (although they’re >>> not so active in the community these days, so maybe somebody else could >>> take it over ? ) >>> >>> >>> >>> Happy to help / support this where I can >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Giles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Ivet Petrova <ivet.petr...@shapeblue.com> >>> *Sent:* 21 May 2021 11:22 >>> *To:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org >>> *Subject:* CloudStack Collaboration Conference >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> We have just a few days to the first CloudStack Virtual event! If still >>> have registered, now is the time to do is: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://zoom.us/webinar/register/3216172602723/WN_-zsXhTq_Ttu1Ktz82my06Q >>> >>> >>> >>> (this is technically a meeting of the European User Group, but as its >>> virtual anybody can join!) >>> >>> >>> >>> I am writing to share also something more: >>> >>> >>> >>> I’ve been thinking about trying to organise a virtual CloudStack >>> Collaboration Conference in the Autumn. There is a Virtual Apachecon in the >>> autumn but I think we have missed our chance with that because the CFP is >>> long closed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Organising this upcoming event has shown me that it is possible to get >>> something virtual off the ground, and we’ve had a lot of interest from >>> people wanting to speak. >>> >>> So, my proposal is that we run a Virtual Cloudstack Collab in the >>> Autumn. I am happy to coordinate this in the community. >>> >>> >>> >>> Тhe target of such event would be to share ideas, collaborate, bring >>> more awareness for the technology and to attract new audience - new >>> possible contributors and new potential users. >>> >>> In terms of format, I was thinking was 2-days event/ 4 hours per day >>> with sessions into streams - one focused on tech and one focused on user >>> stories and the business side. >>> >>> We’d need to run a CFP process – I may need some help with that. >>> >>> >>> >>> What do people think? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
