My team and I are happy to provide a long-term commitment to maintaining all the cloudstack web properties, CCC, Blog and www et all. We will collaborate with Ivet on the same.
Can we know the steps required to transition the websites? I presume this would require PMC approval? Best, Sunando www.indiqus.com +91 97111 52299 *Book my time for a call here <https://t.sidekickopen45.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kv8bWL06W1M6vxk59hl3kW7_k2842Qy2TxW7XLCJP7blRHjN83GqGkDyk8yf8bQQB202?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3F4Fph41QWmBW1JxwY51LDLyRf3zdYTm04&si=5666632314912768&pi=9096330f-29c6-4320-9553-16b430347d7c> * On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 2:07 AM Andrija Panic <andrija.pa...@gmail.com> wrote: > Being in a need to update ACS websites in past, it was absolutely > frustrating to get things done at all - that is my humble experience. > > I do understand WordPress needs some maintenance - so we need to sort it > out, if we want to move to it. > And, for the record, I do support the idea of WordPress, as technical guys > (me included) can/want to barely write a complete documentation or even > keep the ACS docs updated, leave alone the marketing pages - technical guys > like working on a code, not updating documentation or marketing pages - > that is a fact nobody can deny, and since this is community project we cant > "force" people do it, although we desperately need it, otherwise things get > outdated and incomplete/obsolete. > > This is where Ivet and alike should jump in, if they are ready to provide > some support for it over the longer period of time (I'm talking about > WordPress for eithet/or/both CCC and the main www site) - and both CCC, > blog and WWW website are so infrequently updated > > my 2 cents. > > Best, > > On Sun, 23 May 2021, 22:01 Sven Vogel, <svo...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> >> In many points I agree with Will. At the moment we speak about the CCC >> website. Right? >> >> I don’t see any reason why we should to the CloudStack website www to an >> WordPress. I like the usage of git for the www site and I think this is >> more open. I don’t see how a WordPress can work like this. Maybe anybody >> have an idea. Please let us concentrate on CCC and not on the www Website. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Sven Vogel >> Apache CloudStack PMC member >> >> >> >> Am Samstag, den 05/22/2021 um 21:59 schrieb Will Stevens: >> >> Giles, I think you and I were saying the same thing. When I mentioned >> your and Simons teams, I was pointing out that you have a marketing team, >> where Simons team is more focused on ops. I think it is most important that >> that you and the other marketing people who are willing and able to support >> this work use whatever system works best for you. >> >> Will >> >> On Sat., May 22, 2021, 10:32 a.m. Giles Sirett, < >> giles.sir...@shapeblue.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Will – although I don’t mind our company being mentioned (and thank >>> you for the compliments), I don’t see this as an issue as what orgs our >>> contributors work for. >>> >>> >>> >>> This, for me, is an issue of needing to create a basic website, quickly >>> and easily, preferably without any specialist skills. – I really do >>> appreciate the work you’ve put in on maintaining this over the years, but I >>> think we should listen to the people who are trying to organise this event. >>> >>> >>> >>> From my perspective :for the collab site, this is almost an unnecessary >>> conversation: it’s a “temporary” site for an annual conference and doesn’t >>> really need long term maintenance - if somebody wants to setup something >>> for this years/next years conference and are prepared to do the work, lets >>> point the A records at whatever they’ve created and let it roll >>> >>> >>> >>> On a more general point (probably more related to cloudstack.apche.org) >>> : I do disagree with your view on things like wordpress. Theres a reason >>> that start-ups, web agencies, marketing teams, etc all default to CMSs like >>> WordPress: it makes it easy to update content by people WITHOUT specialist >>> tech skills – the same people that often have ideas on >>> marketing/presentation/etc. AFAIK, WordPress is virtually de-facto in >>> those circles >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, we’re a tech community, but we’re mainly java programmers and infra >>> people. AFAIK there isn’t a defacto HTML generator in our circles. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Over the years we’ve had a number of more marketing focussed people in >>> the community: Karen, Ivet, myself, Sunando, Julia and I don’t think any of >>> us have been able to update cloudstack.apache.org without constantly >>> asking for help. I’d guess most don’t even know where to start with git >>> >>> We should be making our web presence easy for such people to add value >>> IMO – but we don’t. This, to me, is like those folks trying to tell our >>> developer community what IDE they have to use (and forcing them to use a >>> txt editor 😊 ) >>> >>> >>> >>> I did start a thread on this about 4 years ago (as I was getting >>> frustrated as to how difficult it was to maintain cloudstack.apache.org). >>> That thread resulted in lots of people listing their favourite HTML >>> generator tools/techniques and nobody able to agree. We even had a web >>> agency prepared to do us a re-design pro bono. >>> >>> >>> >>> It ran out of steam and the pro-bono agency ran a mile after a few days >>> on this mailing list. At the same time, there’s folks like Ivet keen to >>> contribute but finding it really difficult >>> >>> >>> >>> Your example comparing two different teams just doesn’t add up to me: >>> how many of Simons team have managed to help maintain our website over the >>> years? None AFAIK (sorry, Simon et al, not in any way meant as a criticism) >>> >>> >>> >>> The net result is that the site languishes: often out of date & is >>> updated infrequently. It is also desperate for a design overhaul IMO >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Giles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com> >>> *Sent:* 22 May 2021 12:57 >>> *To:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org >>> *Subject:* Re: CloudStack Collaboration Conference >>> >>> >>> >>> As you wish. I personally hate WordPress, as it becomes a bear to >>> maintain over time. You also have to find somewhere to host it and someone >>> to maintain it. I find that static sites built with something like Hugo are >>> actually easier to maintain, but you are right that some understanding of >>> html is usually required. Static sites also cater to distributed >>> contribution more easily. If you use a service like Netlify, for example, >>> all contribution can be handled through GitHub PRs and the changes can be >>> live previewed within the pull request. Once merged, the site is >>> automatically updated. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am willing to support whatever direction is taken, but my personal >>> involvement supporting a WordPress implementation will be much more limited >>> as I don't have the time to dedicate to that sort of a rebuild. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have a ton of experience with WordPress, Drupal and the like, so I >>> feel obligated to provide my honest opinion. You are right that minor >>> content changes are easier for non-techies, but as soon as you want to make >>> any structural changes or improvements, it becomes highly technical and >>> extremely difficult. The only way to make a WordPress implementation >>> successful, in my experience, is to have consistent technical maintenance >>> by someone with moderate to high technical ability. You also have to >>> actively maintain contributors within the system. >>> >>> >>> >>> Given that CloudStack is an open source Apache project, the majority of >>> the community members are technical users of the platform, so there is a >>> skewed technical bias within the community participation. I think >>> ShapeBlue is the obvious exception, because they run a business around >>> CoudStack, rather than CloudStack just being a piece of a bigger business. >>> ShapeBlue may have staff with skills capable of maintaining something like >>> this, and the contextual interest in investing their paid resources time, >>> but I don't think the majority of the community has the luxury of >>> dedicating this type of profile to focus on CloudStack. Giles, I hope you >>> don't mind me mentioning ShapeBlue in this way. You and your team have >>> remained a constant in the community and your CloudStack focused team has a >>> much more diverse set of skills than most strong contributors in the >>> community. For example, if I compare to Simon's team at ENA, they have been >>> strong contributors for a long time but their team is much more technical >>> and operations focused, which I think is more common in the CloudStack >>> community based on my experience. >>> >>> >>> >>> The reason I raise this is because contribution will naturally wax and >>> wane within the community based on the different organization's ability to >>> fund contribution. Given the fact that WordPress requires dedicated >>> maintenance over time, my concern is that the community will have a much >>> harder time maintaining it with a rotating group of contributors. >>> >>> >>> >>> As an individual contributor, my contribution has waxed and waned over >>> the years and I am not in a good position to represent the needs and >>> capabilities of the current community. I don't know if what I laid out >>> here resonates with the group, so please take it with a grain of salt if >>> you see things differently. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> On Sat., May 22, 2021, 5:18 a.m. Sunando Bhattacharya, < >>> suna...@indiqus.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Will, >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it's best to set up the site afresh using WordPress as it would >>> be far easier to administer for a non-tech person. Moreover, WordPress also >>> has readymade plugins for the virtual event and Webinar platforms, which >>> will make the event setup much easier. >>> >>> >>> >>> Want do you think Ivet? >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Sunando >>> >>> www.indiqus.com >>> >>> +91 97111 52299 >>> >>> >>> * Book my time for a call here >>> <https://t.sidekickopen45.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kv8bWL06W1M6vxk59hl3kW7_k2842Qy2TxW7XLCJP7blRHjN83GqGkDyk8yf8bQQB202?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3F4Fph41QWmBW1JxwY51LDLyRf3zdYTm04&si=5666632314912768&pi=b39b9ed8-71b1-4341-dec1-f2b7cc7261c2> >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 12:03 AM Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hey Ivet, >>> >>> It is built using Hugo (https://gohugo.io/), which produces a static >>> website. >>> >>> >>> >>> The different site repositories are here: >>> https://github.com/cloudops/?q=cloudstackcollab >>> >>> >>> >>> The `cloudstackcollab.org` repo is a simple landing page site which >>> basically references all of the upcoming CCC events (the subdomain sites). >>> Then each event gets their own site. The `us.cloudstackcollab.org` >>> repo has seen the most activity over the years and is likely a good >>> starting point. >>> >>> >>> >>> Currently, I am personally hosting the sites, but we could change that. >>> I could potentially host it via a `gh-pages` branch in the same repo if >>> that is preferred. We could also move these sites to the apache org if >>> that is desired, but I suspect there will be some red tape in making that >>> happen. I am happy to deploy the updates to the current hosting if that is >>> desirable for the short term anyway. >>> >>> >>> >>> The easiest way to get started would be to clone one or two of the repos >>> and get them working locally on your system by setting up Hugo. From >>> there, we can potentially handle the content / site changes through PRs >>> which I can then merge and deploy. That is probably the shortest path, but >>> I happy to accomodate if we would like to approach this differently. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let me know if/when you have questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:13 AM Ivet Petrova < >>> ivet.petr...@shapeblue.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Will, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am volunteering to make updates there if you agree. >>> >>> Looks like not WorPress. Is it plain HTML? >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 21 May 2021, at 17:07, Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, I have not been as active in the community as I once was. I am >>> happy to support the CloudStack Collab website as I have in the past, but I >>> am also willing to get someone else setup to take over if someone is >>> interested. >>> >>> >>> >>> I will try to stay on top of the CCC communications so I am not a >>> bottleneck for progress. [image: :)] >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 7:43 AM Giles Sirett <giles.sir...@shapeblue.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Ivet – I think that is a GREAT idea. I’d love to see it happen >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously, you have experience in organising virtual events, so I wont >>> try to offer any advice on that, but here’s a couple of things you would >>> need to think about >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Permission to use the trademark. >>> Officially there’s nothing to stop you (or anybody) organising an >>> event at any time. The only official thing you need to do is ask the PMC >>> for permission to use the ACS trademark. I’ll happily ask on your behalf >>> if you like – let me know >>> 2. CFP >>> The way we have done this previously is ask for a small panel of >>> volunteers to act as a “talk selection committee” >>> Obviously , we then need some way of people actually submitting >>> proposals. Previously, we’ve used the Apachecon CFP tool – obviously >>> that >>> wont be available for an event such as this >>> 3. We have a website for Cloudstack Collab conferences : >>> http://cloudstackcollab.org/ >>> That’s managed by Will Stevens/ the cloud-ops guys (although they’re >>> not so active in the community these days, so maybe somebody else could >>> take it over ? ) >>> >>> >>> >>> Happy to help / support this where I can >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Giles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Ivet Petrova <ivet.petr...@shapeblue.com> >>> *Sent:* 21 May 2021 11:22 >>> *To:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org >>> *Subject:* CloudStack Collaboration Conference >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> We have just a few days to the first CloudStack Virtual event! If still >>> have registered, now is the time to do is: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://zoom.us/webinar/register/3216172602723/WN_-zsXhTq_Ttu1Ktz82my06Q >>> >>> >>> >>> (this is technically a meeting of the European User Group, but as its >>> virtual anybody can join!) >>> >>> >>> >>> I am writing to share also something more: >>> >>> >>> >>> I’ve been thinking about trying to organise a virtual CloudStack >>> Collaboration Conference in the Autumn. There is a Virtual Apachecon in the >>> autumn but I think we have missed our chance with that because the CFP is >>> long closed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Organising this upcoming event has shown me that it is possible to get >>> something virtual off the ground, and we’ve had a lot of interest from >>> people wanting to speak. >>> >>> So, my proposal is that we run a Virtual Cloudstack Collab in the >>> Autumn. I am happy to coordinate this in the community. >>> >>> >>> >>> Тhe target of such event would be to share ideas, collaborate, bring >>> more awareness for the technology and to attract new audience - new >>> possible contributors and new potential users. >>> >>> In terms of format, I was thinking was 2-days event/ 4 hours per day >>> with sessions into streams - one focused on tech and one focused on user >>> stories and the business side. >>> >>> We’d need to run a CFP process – I may need some help with that. >>> >>> >>> >>> What do people think? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
