Dear all

Just been of for a few days (using up the sick leave!) and your all 
back to Dialectical Materialism. It clear must be a significant 
issue. I haven't read all the messages but Chris' substantial reply 
of 7/12/99 (23:24) seemed to sum up my position most clearly. 

It is NOT possible to suggest that Marx denied the existence of 
dialectics operating in nature. It is possible to suggest that he 
did not think that dialectical materialism existed except as an 
analogy to social life, but that is difficult.

Engels clearly did think dialectics operated in nature as did their 
joint advisor and close friend, Karl Schorlemmer (Jollymeier, who 
worked in the building across the road from me here.) If Marx did 
agree then he is unlikely to have gone out of his way to proclaim it 
as he was busy with other tasks and had left Engels to deal with the 
issue. If he was opposed then the heated arguments this would of 
caused (as can be seen by its reappearence even on this list) would 
certainly have been recorded somewhere in the correspondence. 

Instead, on 22 June 1867, we find him saying: 'Hegel's discovery - 
the law of merely quantitive changes turning into qualiative changes 
- [holds] good alike in history and natural science.' How do you 
explain this? Is he scared of upsetting his two friends, is he 
intimidated by their scientific knowledge or had he forgot that 'only 
the former can be found in the works of Marx' ????

Also when Engels wrote (and presumeably while he was writing) 
Anti-During - as a manifesto of their joint position within the 
German Socialist Workers Party - we would have to believe he neither 
read it or knew what it contained (we do know Marx had a copy.) It is 
hard to prove he read it (harder to prove he didn't!), he did provide 
a chapter and provided the preface to the abbreviated French edition, 
Socialism Utopian and Scientific, descibing Engels as 'one of the 
most eminent representatives of contemorary socialism'. He did know 
that it would include much on the sciences in general and he would 
have known the sort of theories it was attacking. 

So was Marx stupid, neglegent or had he given up caring about this 
important issue. Hardly a good way to ask someone to write a defence 
of your position within the communist movement who you disagreed so 

So Simon et al, your 'Hero' Marx looks less and less like the Great 
Man you need to cling to for fear of Leninism - or worst still 
Engelsianism! - if he did oppose dialectical materialism but was too 
shy to say so.


(An Engelsianist Leninist) 

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