The fact that Zionists refer to the Jewish People as a Nation is not an argument that contradicts the notion of National Identity in the first place. There were a number of tendencies that also considered the Jewish People to be a Nation. The Social Democratic position was one of dismissal in respect to the national consciousness of the Jewish People. See the study on the Antisemitism of the II Int in Marxist theory by Lars Fischer’s The Socialist Response to Antisemitism in the German Imperial State’.
https://www.academia.edu/4755768/The_Socialist_Response_to_Antisemitism_in_Imperial_Germany_New_York_Cambridge_University_Press_2007_Pb_2010_?email_work_card=view-paper <https://www.academia.edu/4755768/The_Socialist_Response_to_Antisemitism_in_Imperial_Germany_New_York_Cambridge_University_Press_2007_Pb_2010_?email_work_card=view-paper&li=0> &li=0 � Other tendencies also considered the Jewish People to be a Nation; Bundist, Deutscherist, Territorialist, Autonomist and Lev Bronstein as well by 1937. � Such a national identification does not justify Zionism, it merely discounts the Marxist error in terms of the definition of Nation. � To dismiss Samuel because he is cited in the Tanach book of history is to reject historical materialism. If Samual can be so easily dismissed, then why not Marx. � � Dr abrahim � � � From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marv Gandall via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 8:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [marxmail] Theses on World Perspectives: In the Midst of a Cycle of Wars and Revolutions � Abrahim, a quick Google search indicates that the Zionists inextricably tie the dubious notion of a “Jewish people-nation” to Israel. The writer relies on scripture - �metaphysics, not materialism - as you also appear to do in citing the Book of Samuel in defence of your position. � https://www.nbn.org.il/educational-content/are-jews-a-people-or-a-religion/ Are Jews a people or a religion? � <https://www.nbn.org.il/author/baruchmackler/> baruch Mackler2022-11-24T14:46:45+02:00 [...] >From the very founding of Judaism, the Jews were meant to be a people, and not >“just” a religion. When the Jews were slaves in Egypt, when they gathered at >Mount Sinai, when they travelled through the desert and entered the land of >Israel, they were called “The Nation of Israel,” and the “Israelites.” They >had a King, a legislative body, a unique set of laws and culture. Whether an >individual Jew decided to accept the axioms of the Jewish religion or not, >whether they believed in God or were an atheist, if they were born into or >converted into Judaism, they were considered a member of the Jewish people. Why are so many motivated to limit Judaism to a religion and refuse to recognize the national element of the Jewish people? As a people and a unique nation, the Jewish people are entitled to self-determination on their historic homeland, the land of Israel. Antisemites, whether they are or aren’t aware of their bias against Jews, aim to restrict the rights of Jews. In characterizing Jews as just a religion it becomes easy to justify denying Jews the rights to self-determination and their homeland. Modern political Zionism, Theodore Herzl’s movement to establish a Jewish state in the land of Israel, was built on the principle that Judaism wasn’t just a religion, but the Jews were a nation as well. As a nation, in fact one of the oldest nations on Earth, the Jews deserved to establish their own state in their historic homeland. Anti-Zionists stood against Jewish rights and tried to stop the establishment of Israel. Even today, Israel’s enemies still deny the Jewish people’s rights. Zionism was a movement to free the Jewish people and gain them the rights they deserve. The modern state of Israel and its advocates still stand for those same rights today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#31857): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/31857 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/107980589/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/8674936/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
