Duane, thanks for posting my article, here is the proper link: https://theirantiimperialismandours.com/2023/09/09/ukraine-myth-series-myth-1-the-maidan-uprising-of-2014-was-a-us-orchestrated-coup/
However, I would not have used my article against either Hari or Mark; both can defend themselves, and have, but briefly, it is obvious from their remarks over many years neither in any way fall into the 'campist' category that this article takes up, and nor, to sa the least, does Patrick Bond whose post set all this off. The issue was the stuff about NED in Patrick's post. As my article also says, it is not unusual for imperialist powers to attempt to influence and co-opt movements, and this was apparent in Ukraine as is well known. It is an entirely different matter to claim that any such attempts change the entire nature of sich movements and render them merely "US-proxy" movements, as if hundreds of thousands, or millions, of people have no agency, and no reason to want to oppose an autocratic regime for example. With respect, perhaps Hari contributed to the confusion by bringing up the Maidan as a possible example of 'colour revolution' in the context of the discussion over the NED's role around the world. But since I know from his own writing that Hari does not hold the view that the Ukraine movement was a wholly-owned US proxy and that he very much opposes Putins' war, this may have been simply a way of saying it was an example of NED or other US government funding/attempted cooptation/interference. It might perhaps be a semantic thing: when I use term 'colour revolution', and claim, as in this article, that the very category is a complete fiction, a complete tankie invention (and happy to discuss this!), I am using it in the sense of a "wholly-owned proxy movement" rather than in the sense of funding/influence by NED or others. Either way, I think we can discuss these issues without trying to "expose" each other based on gotcha quotes. On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 2:38 PM Duane Filan via groups.io <filanduane= [email protected]> wrote: > Mark > You didn't note the Banderite fascists. We've already had this debate. The > campists lost. > ////////// > > Ukraine myth series - > Myth 1: The Maidan uprising of 2014 was a "US-orchestrated coup" > Sept 9, 2023 by Michael Karadjis > > "...unless they think that people have no agency (or no right to agency) > and that these kinds of numbers can all be manipulated by the CIA, Victoria > Nolan, Hunter Biden etc. Were all these hundreds of thousands of people in > the streets, and every member of parliament personally bribed? > That the U S (or others) will always try to influence, to co-opt a > movement is of course a given. But that is no reason to oppose a popular > uprising or mass mobilization and hence essentially give support to a > corrupt and repressive regime being overthrown. > > "Coup in this case seems to be an updated version of the infamous term > "colour revolution" a nonsense concept invented by the tankies" > > theirimperialismandours.com > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#33766): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/33766 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/109752225/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
