Hi, On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thiago Macieira a écrit : > > Em Sábado 3. Abril 2010, às 00.38.30, Graham Cobb escreveu: >> >>> On Friday 02 April 2010 22:59:58 Thiago Macieira wrote: >>> >>>> Why did you file it in bugzilla.meego.com? How is it MeeGo's problem >>>> that >>>> Debian doesn't have python-kickstart? >>>> >>> Did you read the bug? >>> >>> 1) Auke stated that it is MeeGo policy that they "want people to be able >>> to >>> build MeeGo images on any current and popular distro". Assuming that is >>> really MeeGo policy then it is a bug that it is not currently possible on >>> Debian. >>> >> >> Yes, it's a Debian bug that they don't have the package. >> >> Asking MeeGo to solve the bugs of every single distro out there is silly. >> It's all open source and it should build in any distro. >> >> If the software is authored and maintained by MeeGo and it won't compile >> or run properly in a given distro (provided all dependencies have been >> installed), then it's a bug. >> > > Actually it's: > 1) A bug into the Makefile of the python-kickstart code (undefined DESTDIR) > 2) A bug in the quality policy and testing of Meego that have made no test > on Debian Lenny. > 3) A bug in the documentation that say nothing on how to install > python-kickstart. > > But this can possibly be a Debian bug! It's not the Debian fault to not > provides a package for a code that none of his users have found useful > before. And it's not a Debian bug if Meego don't do quality testing. Right. So when ultimately you need Debian to have the package, the request/issue should go in their tracker. Debian people aren't going to check the MeeGo tracker to see what they are missing. If the package provided by MeeGo has a fault, then yes. By all means file it in MeeGo bugtracker. :) > > > 2) The main issue is that the instructions in >>> http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment don't work. >>> That >>> is a bug in the instructions. >>> >> >> I understand now. It's just that the text you pasted in the bug report was >> simply showing that you had not installed python-kickstart. >> >> 3) Is it MeeGo's problem that Debian doesn't have mic-chroot? Yes. So, >>> MeeGo provides it. python-kickstart is no different. >>> >> >> No, it's not MeeGo's problem. >> >> It's Debian's problem that they didn't package it, or ultimately yours. >> >> Like I said, asking MeeGo to conform to the lowest common denominator in >> ALL distros is silly. The software can be installed on those distros, so >> install it. >> > > Debian is certainly not the "lowest common denominator in ALL distros". > It's actually the highest quality and complete distribution on this planet. > Fedora don't have as many packages and architectures as Debian have. The > fault is the strategic decision of Meego to use code only available on > Fedora. If you could just stop typing the hell out of this thread and read what were the others trying to say, you could've noticed for the umpteenth time, that MeeGo isn't based on Fedora, nor is using exclusively Fedora packages, nor has endorsed Fedora as the preferred developer environment. And please don't start yet another Deb Vs RPM case here. MeeGo is using RPM and it's decided. If you start to discuss quality of distros it'll soon get religious. You make at least two false points. For the first, I don't think Thiago meant low quality when me mentioned "lowest common denominator". But rather something in the lines of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest_common_denominator For the 2nd one, as a member of the MeeGo community and an enthusiast I never came across or noticed that the MeeGo project has made a "strategic decision to use code only available on Fedora". Wasn't mentioned in TSG meetings, or any WG or by any of the employees of Nokia and Intel or LF. So please don't retort again, saying Fedora is given the precedence over any other distro. I don't know what distros will be suitable out of the box as MeeGo dev environments or if there's going to be a more easier or generic way to setup the dev env (Eg: an SDK installer). But if your favourite distro X is missing packages let's try to do something about that rather than saying "Y is unfairly blessed". > > > You should file that to Debian and ask them how soon they can provide a >>>> package. >>>> >>> That is not how distros work (any distro, not just Debian) -- if I create >>> an app which I want to work on Debian, it is my responsibility (not >>> Debian's) to provide all the dependencies which are not part of the >>> distro. If I want to create packages for (say) GPE on Debian, I can't >>> complain that Debian hasn't packaged some library I need -- I have to >>> include packages for that with my release as well. >>> >> >> That's not how I understand. >> >> If I write an application and I use library A, that's that. I release my >> application. >> >> If a distro wants to package my app, they'll include library A. If I want >> the distro to package my app, then I'll probably take the necessary steps to >> ensure that everything is proper, including the dependencies. >> >> If the distro won't package my app, then the users of that distro will >> need to get library A, install it, then my app, and install it. >> >> If that library won't install properly on that distro, it's also not my >> problem. It's Library A's author's problem and also the problem of the users >> of that distro. >> > > If the goal of Meego is to provide low quality software uninstallable on > common distribution by normal user and claim that it's the user fault, then > you are granted to miserably fail to attract a valuable community. I really value your ideas, but you show a staggering tendency to give an ambiguous statement like the above and provide a skewed and potentially poisonous conclusion. We are talking here about things that are not even started yet in some cases. It's been just a few days since Day 1. And things are starting. Packaging and build systems are not even public yet and a RWG is in the discussions. So let's be a little patient and see how it goes. And meanwhile, we can be productive. There's something called constructive criticism. :) > > > Regards, > -- > Jean-Christian de Rivaz > _______________________________________________ > MeeGo-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev > Cheers, -- Gaveen Prabhasara
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